[blindlgbtpride] More on the over turning of Prop. 8
ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Sat Aug 7 21:01:34 GMT 2010
I think the blind community needs more than just educating about marriage equality. The whole issue of the LGBT lifestyle needs to be openly discussed in the blind community. For years it is something that has been avoided. Any attempt to openly discuss the issue within NFB has received opposition from the powers that be although I think this is beginning to change. When I was growing up it was never something addressed by social workers or rehab counselors working with the blind. This may have changed in the past few decades but I'm not sure. Over the years I have had many sighted people that were shocked that as a blind person I would competently deal with the life in the gay bars in different cities.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Lyn Gwizdak
To: Blind LGBT Pride discussion list
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlgbtpride] More on the over turning of Prop. 8
Thanks, Jeremy.
No, I never try to get these folks to change their views on the Bible - I know that won't happen. My friend doesn't know how to support marriage equality AND remain loyal to her religious beliefs. She wants to be supportive of us but can't get around her conflict with her religious beliefs. Other people just act like a broken record and quote the Bible about homosexuality. I've already tried to explain these things you bring up like how marriage equality supports family values because of how marriage supports all families and children. they just don't think as far as that - they're just stuck on the Bible verses. This is what I can't seem to get around to get them to support a SECULAR marriage. I even tell them about how their churches will never have to perform these marriages if it is against their faith principles. How do we get through to these folks who voted for Prop 8 and change their minds to keep the Prop overturned?
Yesterday, I went to play BINGO at our blind center and one of the biggest supporters of Prop 8 tried to get me into a fight with him about the ruling. He adamently claimed that bigotry had nothing to do with Prop 8 - the Bible forbids homosexuality, period, end of discussion. He was beginning to get wound up in a wad. He will not have a calm, respectful discussion like my fundalmentalist friend does. Well, I refused to get into it with him - he knows my views - and I left the room to go roound up the coffee supplies to make some coffee! Good Grief!!!
I've been trying to do my part in educating the blind community about marriage equality and failing big time! (grin!)
Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy Congdon
To: 'Blind LGBT Pride discussion list'
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlgbtpride] More on the over turning of Prop. 8
Hi Lyn,
At the risk of taking on a controversial topic, you're not going to get anywhere by telling religious people that they need to look at the Bible differently. Unless you're a religious person yourself, they simply won't consider you a credible source--and even if you are religious, their idea of credibility on that topic may be very different from yours.
Instead, try focusing on how gay families are strong families and how legal gay marriage extends the rights and protections that all families need, especially in terms of the legal ability to make important decisions, like parenting decisions (where both parents need to be able to make decisions or to advocate for a child), or like illness (health insurance, hospital visitation rights, medical decision-making), and at other times when having the legal rights and protections that married couples have can allow a family to grow or to weather difficult times of life. The argument is basically that legal gay marriage strengthens families, both for the sake of the spouses and for their children.
For what that's worth,
Jeremy
From: blindlgbtpride-bounces at acb.org [mailto:blindlgbtpride-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Lyn Gwizdak
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 10:26 AM
To: Blind LGBT Pride discussion list
Subject: Re: [blindlgbtpride] More on the over turning of Prop. 8
Hey! I hope so!!!
Question - does anyone know how to counter the people who can't support the same sex marriage or LGBT rights in general because they believe in the "inerrancy" of the Bible? they actually believe that EVERY SINGLE WORD in the Bible is the actual Word of God with NO mistake. Including what is written about homosexuality and cross dressing. I have several friends here in our blind community - including one of my best friends - who believe this way and I can't get them to see that their beliefs don't have to interfere with our rights in the secular world. How can I counter this??? Prop 8 might wind up on the ballot again in 2012 and I'm trying to gain more support for same sex marriages.
Lyn
----- Original Message -----
From: ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
To: Blind LGBT Pride discussion list
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlgbtpride] More on the over turning of Prop. 8
The judge will decide tomorrow, (Friday) whether same sex marriages will resume when he holds a hearing. There were several hundred people here at the rally at RFresno City Hall last night as well.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Lyn Gwizdak
To: Blind LGBT Pride discussion list
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlgbtpride] More on the over turning of Prop. 8
Hi All,
From what I understand about the ruling is that Prop 8 STAYS IN EFFECT untill it goes to the Supreme Court - and if the Supreme Court overturns the prop.
I heard on the news that the judge could also order Prop 8 to be lifted and allow same sex marriages but I don't know if this will happen.
I was at the big celebration last night in San Diego. Our mayor, Jerry Sanders used to be in favor of Prop 8 until one of our city council members, his wife, and his daughter got after him on that! His lesbian daughter married her partner earlier this year in Vermont. Last night, Sanders apologized to the LGBT Community for his prior support of Prop 8 and how he changed his mind on this to loud, warm applause and cheers. Sanders has now truely become a champion of our rights to marry. He is a kind and compassionate man who loves his family. He also testified before the jury during the court case. He really "gets it" aboout who we are and how the taking away of our rights is so terrible.
We've won this battle but still have more battles before we finally win the war!
Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Brown
To: Blind LGBT Pride discussion list
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 3:04 PM
Subject: [blindlgbtpride] More on the over turning of Prop. 8
California gay marriage ban overturned | Reuters.com
Reuters
Top News
California gay marriage ban overturned
Today, Aug 4
image
By Jim Christie
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - A federal judge on Wednesday struck down a California ban on same-sex marriages as unconstitutional, handing a key victory to
gay rights advocates in a politically charged decision almost certain to reach the U.S. Supreme Court.
U.S. District Court Chief Judge Vaughn Walker also ordered the voter-approved ban, known as Proposition 8, immediately lifted to allow gay and lesbian couples
to marry while the case moves to a higher court.
Prop 8 supporters had sought to keep the measure in place pending the outcome of their appeal.
But Vaughn said the lawsuit challenging Prop 8 "demonstrated by overwhelming evidence" that it violates due process and equal-protection rights under the
U.S. Constitution.
"Proposition 8 fails to advance any rational basis in singling out gay men and lesbians for denial of a marriage license," Walker wrote in the conclusion
of the 136-page opinion.
Outside the federal courthouse in San Francisco, a cheer went up among a group of about 70 same-sex marriage supporters carrying small U.S. flags, as a
large rainbow-striped flag -- the symbol of the gay rights movement -- waved overhead.
California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, who has said he personally supports gay marriage but would abide by the will of voters and the courts, said the
decision "affirms the full protections and safeguards I believe everyone deserves."
The highly anticipated ruling marked a major turning point in a social debate that has sharply divided the American public and its political establishment.
Gay rights advocates and civil libertarians have cast the legal battle as a fight for equal rights, while opponents, including many religious conservatives,
see same-sex marriage as a threat to the traditional family.
Both sides have said an appeal to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals was certain regardless of the outcome on Wednesday. The case could then go to the
Supreme Court, provided the high court's justices opted to hear it.
"I'm thrilled," gay marriage supporter Steven Ray Davis said at the courthouse. "We still have a long way to go."
The case against California's Prop 8, a constitutional amendment approved by voters in November 2008 defining marriage as between a man and a woman, marks
the first challenge in federal court to a state law barring same-sex matrimony.
Thirty-nine U.S. states have laws explicitly prohibiting gay marriage -- 30 adopted in their constitutions. Five states and the District of Columbia recognize
gay marriage -- Iowa, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Vermont and Massachusetts.
Early last month, a federal judge in Massachusetts ruled that a 1996 federal law, the Defense of Marriage Act, or DOMA, which denies federal recognition
of same-sex marriages, even in states where it is allowed, was unconstitutional.
The federal government has 60 days to decide whether to appeal that ruling.
The two lead attorneys in the California case are Ted Olson and David Boies, who opposed each other in the landmark Supreme Court case that decided the
outcome of the disputed 2000 U.S. presidential election and put George W. Bush in the White House.
Some gay rights advocates were initially hesitant to bring a federal challenge to Prop 8, fearing an eventual loss before the conservative-leaning U.S.
Supreme Court.
(Editing by Steve Gorman and Cynthia Osterman)
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