[bscb-l] shoveling snow

Fri Mar 26 17:15:04 GMT 2010

I meant that all the policies referred to in the "whereas" clauses are all the same type of law that makes homeowners responsible for shoveling public sidewalks...but I do see that it's not actually specified in the "therefore be it resolved" part.  I agree with you that we should not specify how this gets done in our resolution, only that it should be done.  However, when we in BSCB go out and talk to cities and towns personally (as in the last part of the resolution, which encourages us to advocate in our own cities and towns), I think we should at least mention that there are other alternatives besides this blame-the-homeowners thing.  I think it will end up costing cities and towns more than you realize to administer all this "disability exemption" paperwork, etc., so if they have limited budgets to get this done, then they should put all that money directly into paying for snow clearance, not into creating a new beaurocracy to determine who gets fined and who doesn't, et
 c. 

PS:  Again I want to say that I do support huge fines for individuals who shovel snow onto the sidewalk, and for cities and towns that allow snowplow drivers to dump snow onto sidewalks.  That would make a big difference.

--Alison

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Hachey" <bhachey at comcast.net>
To: "Bay state (Massachusetts) discussion list" <bscb-l at acb.org>
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 1:00:46 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [bscb-l] shoveling snow

Hi Alison,
I just reread the proposed resolution and it does not specify as to whether 
or not sidewalks should be cleared by municipalities or property owners. I 
think we're probably better served this way because if we insist now upon 
cities and towns taking on the responsibility, i believe it will take us 
much longer to achieve our goal of cleared sidewalks. Here below is quoted 
the resolved clauses and I can't see where it points the finger at either 
property owners or municipalities.
I will be sure that all of the points brought to the fore here will be 
included in Sunday's discussion.
Thanks for weighing in.
By the way, Meg Robertson suggested that I take a look at www.walkboston.com 
and they seem to favor property owners doing the shoveling. Personally, I 
agree with you that municipalities should do it, but where will they get the 
funding? This is surely not an easy dilemma. I would never support fining an 
elder or PWD with low income because they failed to clear their sidewalks.
Bob Hachey

"NOW, THEREFORE:

BE IT RESOLVED that the Bay State Council of the Blind in convention 
assembled on this 28th day of March, 2010 in Waltham, Massachusetts supports 
the implementation of policies designed to ensure that all sidewalks in the 
Commonwealth are cleared of snow within a reasonable time after winter 
storms and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that BSCB asks all of its members to work within 
their local municipalities in support of this goal."

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alison" <alison2911 at comcast.net>
To: "Bay state (Massachusetts) discussion list" <bscb-l at acb.org>
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: [bscb-l] shoveling snow

> The BSCB resolution as it stands right now does specifically call for a 
> particular approach to sidewalk snow removal: namely, it calls for this 
> let's-blame-the-homeowners thing.  I say, how about we re-word the 
> resolution to call on cities and towns to find ways to keep the sidewalks 
> clear within 24 hours after winter storms, period.  Let's at least allow 
> cities and towns to come up with better solutions than this 
> blame-the-homeowners idea--better solutions might actually happen in a few 
> cities and towns as long as we don't paint everyone into a corner with 
> this one specific idea of punishing homeowners--an idea that doesn't 
> result in uniformly clear sidewalks, only extra red tape and resentment. 
> On the other hand, imposing huge fines on cities and towns for allowing 
> snowplows to dump snow on sidewalks would be a much better first step, 
> because it would be enforceable and it would make a big difference (and it 
> would probably be quite popular with the general public, unlike the idea 
> we're proposing).  All the arguments I'm seeing on this list for the 
> blame-the-homeowners idea seem to stem from the attitude that sighted 
> people who drive cars are "lazy" and they all think people who walk on 
> sidewalks are "losers" (these are your actual words, folks)--obviously 
> that kind of resentment isn't very constructive if we're trying to find a 
> good solution to this problem.  Let's try to be problem-solvers here, not 
> just angry haters.  If we encourage creative solutions to this problem, 
> like Bob's suggestion of having Boy Scouts, etc. do it for cities and 
> towns as part of their public service projects, or some of Alice's various 
> suggestions, then we will come out much better in the end, with nice clear 
> sidewalks and happy neighbors.
>
> --Alison
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Hachey" <bhachey at comcast.net>
> To: "Bay state (Massachusetts) discussion list" <bscb-l at acb.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:33:30 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: [bscb-l] shoveling snow
>
>
>
> Hi alice,
> Agreed on all points here. Still, if we're going to ask homeowners to 
> shovel, then we really need to be careful to create policies that assist 
> elders and PWD to keep their sidewalks clear.
> How's this for a compromise. Firstly, in the long run, I'd like to see 
> municipalities take on this task, but that ain't happenin any time soon. 
> In the short run, we require homeowners to shovel, but put those who are 
> unable to either do it themselves or pay to have it done in a special 
> category whereby they get some sort of assistance. Since so many young 
> people today are not in good shape, how about we get high school kids to 
> shovel for neighbors and pay them something like $10.00 per hour? 
> Alternatively, we could get groups like the boy and girl scouts to do 
> service projects. They could even earn comunity service merrit badges for 
> such work.
> I'm not sure how much if any we want to change the wording in the 
> resolution since that could paint us into a corner. the goal of the 
> resolution is to develop policies whereby sidewalks are cleared, not to be 
> divisive by forcing those who are not able to shovel snow or get fined. I 
> realize this means monitoring and probably some paperwork.
> This has been an excellent discussion!
> Bob Hachye
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: alice dampman Humel
> To: bscb-l at acb.org
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 6:03 PM
> Subject: [bscb-l] shoveling snow
>
>
> While I, too, would rather see the city come through and clear the 
> sidewalks, I still say that the main reason that people do not shovel 
> their sidewalks is that they are too lazy, and they don't care about the 
> "losers" that have to walk to the bus. It's not that they aren't able to 
> clear the sidewalk, they just don't give a damn.
> Of course, there are people who can't shovel. But that's not the majority.
> I have such people right around the corner from me. It's a two-family 
> house, and I don't know who lives in the other half. But the homeowner 
> lives in one half, and while he's not the youngest guy, he's no older than 
> I am, and he's not disabled, and he has a perfectly able-bodied young son. 
> They never shovel their sidewalk, even though they have a blind person in 
> the neighborhood who walks past that house every day. And, they *always* 
> shovel their driveway, and they are one of these that pile all that snow 
> from the driveway right in the middle of the sidewalk. I've often 
> fantasized about carrying a snow shovel with me, and when I find one of 
> those mounds, stopping and shoveling the whole mound right back in the 
> middle of the driveway, preferably behind their car parked in that nice 
> clear driveway!!
> I had another neighbor with whom it was the same story. She was 
> able-bodied enough to go to the gym and work out, but she could never rake 
> leaves on her property or shovel snow. And, she also had a 25 year old big 
> strapping son living at home, but Sonny Boy could not be expected to do 
> such demeaning labor , after all.
> Sorry, but it's far more often attitude than it is disability that keeps 
> people from shoveling.
> Alice
> alicedh at verizon.net
>
>
>
>
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