[bscb-l] shoveling snow

Fri Mar 26 17:33:56 GMT 2010

I agree with what you said, Bob.

--Alison

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Hachey" <bhachey at comcast.net>
To: "Bay state (Massachusetts) discussion list" <bscb-l at acb.org>
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 1:31:58 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [bscb-l] shoveling snow

OK, we've reached consensus at least I think we have. And, I think a clause 
about how plows block sidewalks should be added in the whereas section.
Bob hachey
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alison" <alison2911 at comcast.net>
To: "Bay state (Massachusetts) discussion list" <bscb-l at acb.org>
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [bscb-l] shoveling snow

>I meant that all the policies referred to in the "whereas" clauses are all 
>the same type of law that makes homeowners responsible for shoveling public 
>sidewalks...but I do see that it's not actually specified in the "therefore 
>be it resolved" part.  I agree with you that we should not specify how this 
>gets done in our resolution, only that it should be done.  However, when we 
>in BSCB go out and talk to cities and towns personally (as in the last part 
>of the resolution, which encourages us to advocate in our own cities and 
>towns), I think we should at least mention that there are other 
>alternatives besides this blame-the-homeowners thing.  I think it will end 
>up costing cities and towns more than you realize to administer all this 
>"disability exemption" paperwork, etc., so if they have limited budgets to 
>get this done, then they should put all that money directly into paying for 
>snow clearance, not into creating a new beaurocracy to determine who gets 
>fined and who doesn't, et
> c.
>
> PS:  Again I want to say that I do support huge fines for individuals who 
> shovel snow onto the sidewalk, and for cities and towns that allow 
> snowplow drivers to dump snow onto sidewalks.  That would make a big 
> difference.
>
> --Alison
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Hachey" <bhachey at comcast.net>
> To: "Bay state (Massachusetts) discussion list" <bscb-l at acb.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 1:00:46 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: [bscb-l] shoveling snow
>
> Hi Alison,
> I just reread the proposed resolution and it does not specify as to 
> whether
> or not sidewalks should be cleared by municipalities or property owners. I
> think we're probably better served this way because if we insist now upon
> cities and towns taking on the responsibility, i believe it will take us
> much longer to achieve our goal of cleared sidewalks. Here below is quoted
> the resolved clauses and I can't see where it points the finger at either
> property owners or municipalities.
> I will be sure that all of the points brought to the fore here will be
> included in Sunday's discussion.
> Thanks for weighing in.
> By the way, Meg Robertson suggested that I take a look at 
> www.walkboston.com
> and they seem to favor property owners doing the shoveling. Personally, I
> agree with you that municipalities should do it, but where will they get 
> the
> funding? This is surely not an easy dilemma. I would never support fining 
> an
> elder or PWD with low income because they failed to clear their sidewalks.
> Bob Hachey
>
> "NOW, THEREFORE:
>
> BE IT RESOLVED that the Bay State Council of the Blind in convention
> assembled on this 28th day of March, 2010 in Waltham, Massachusetts 
> supports
> the implementation of policies designed to ensure that all sidewalks in 
> the
> Commonwealth are cleared of snow within a reasonable time after winter
> storms and
>
>
>
> BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that BSCB asks all of its members to work within
> their local municipalities in support of this goal."
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Alison" <alison2911 at comcast.net>
> To: "Bay state (Massachusetts) discussion list" <bscb-l at acb.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 11:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [bscb-l] shoveling snow
>
>
>> The BSCB resolution as it stands right now does specifically call for a
>> particular approach to sidewalk snow removal: namely, it calls for this
>> let's-blame-the-homeowners thing.  I say, how about we re-word the
>> resolution to call on cities and towns to find ways to keep the sidewalks
>> clear within 24 hours after winter storms, period.  Let's at least allow
>> cities and towns to come up with better solutions than this
>> blame-the-homeowners idea--better solutions might actually happen in a 
>> few
>> cities and towns as long as we don't paint everyone into a corner with
>> this one specific idea of punishing homeowners--an idea that doesn't
>> result in uniformly clear sidewalks, only extra red tape and resentment.
>> On the other hand, imposing huge fines on cities and towns for allowing
>> snowplows to dump snow on sidewalks would be a much better first step,
>> because it would be enforceable and it would make a big difference (and 
>> it
>> would probably be quite popular with the general public, unlike the idea
>> we're proposing).  All the arguments I'm seeing on this list for the
>> blame-the-homeowners idea seem to stem from the attitude that sighted
>> people who drive cars are "lazy" and they all think people who walk on
>> sidewalks are "losers" (these are your actual words, folks)--obviously
>> that kind of resentment isn't very constructive if we're trying to find a
>> good solution to this problem.  Let's try to be problem-solvers here, not
>> just angry haters.  If we encourage creative solutions to this problem,
>> like Bob's suggestion of having Boy Scouts, etc. do it for cities and
>> towns as part of their public service projects, or some of Alice's 
>> various
>> suggestions, then we will come out much better in the end, with nice 
>> clear
>> sidewalks and happy neighbors.
>>
>> --Alison
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bob Hachey" <bhachey at comcast.net>
>> To: "Bay state (Massachusetts) discussion list" <bscb-l at acb.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:33:30 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
>> Subject: Re: [bscb-l] shoveling snow
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi alice,
>> Agreed on all points here. Still, if we're going to ask homeowners to
>> shovel, then we really need to be careful to create policies that assist
>> elders and PWD to keep their sidewalks clear.
>> How's this for a compromise. Firstly, in the long run, I'd like to see
>> municipalities take on this task, but that ain't happenin any time soon.
>> In the short run, we require homeowners to shovel, but put those who are
>> unable to either do it themselves or pay to have it done in a special
>> category whereby they get some sort of assistance. Since so many young
>> people today are not in good shape, how about we get high school kids to
>> shovel for neighbors and pay them something like $10.00 per hour?
>> Alternatively, we could get groups like the boy and girl scouts to do
>> service projects. They could even earn comunity service merrit badges for
>> such work.
>> I'm not sure how much if any we want to change the wording in the
>> resolution since that could paint us into a corner. the goal of the
>> resolution is to develop policies whereby sidewalks are cleared, not to 
>> be
>> divisive by forcing those who are not able to shovel snow or get fined. I
>> realize this means monitoring and probably some paperwork.
>> This has been an excellent discussion!
>> Bob Hachye
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: alice dampman Humel
>> To: bscb-l at acb.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 6:03 PM
>> Subject: [bscb-l] shoveling snow
>>
>>
>> While I, too, would rather see the city come through and clear the
>> sidewalks, I still say that the main reason that people do not shovel
>> their sidewalks is that they are too lazy, and they don't care about the
>> "losers" that have to walk to the bus. It's not that they aren't able to
>> clear the sidewalk, they just don't give a damn.
>> Of course, there are people who can't shovel. But that's not the 
>> majority.
>> I have such people right around the corner from me. It's a two-family
>> house, and I don't know who lives in the other half. But the homeowner
>> lives in one half, and while he's not the youngest guy, he's no older 
>> than
>> I am, and he's not disabled, and he has a perfectly able-bodied young 
>> son.
>> They never shovel their sidewalk, even though they have a blind person in
>> the neighborhood who walks past that house every day. And, they *always*
>> shovel their driveway, and they are one of these that pile all that snow
>> from the driveway right in the middle of the sidewalk. I've often
>> fantasized about carrying a snow shovel with me, and when I find one of
>> those mounds, stopping and shoveling the whole mound right back in the
>> middle of the driveway, preferably behind their car parked in that nice
>> clear driveway!!
>> I had another neighbor with whom it was the same story. She was
>> able-bodied enough to go to the gym and work out, but she could never 
>> rake
>> leaves on her property or shovel snow. And, she also had a 25 year old 
>> big
>> strapping son living at home, but Sonny Boy could not be expected to do
>> such demeaning labor , after all.
>> Sorry, but it's far more often attitude than it is disability that keeps
>> people from shoveling.
>> Alice
>> alicedh at verizon.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
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