[bscb-l] shoveling snow

Fri Mar 26 17:52:39 GMT 2010

agree!  when possible i also carry a small shovel with me and take it upon 
myself to  shovel some snow away from walk signal  poles  poorly cleared 
pedestrian crossings...
janet shane
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Hachey" <bhachey at comcast.net>
To: "Bay state (Massachusetts) discussion list" <bscb-l at acb.org>
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: [bscb-l] shoveling snow


> OK, we've reached consensus at least I think we have. And, I think a 
> clause about how plows block sidewalks should be added in the whereas 
> section.
> Bob hachey
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Alison" <alison2911 at comcast.net>
> To: "Bay state (Massachusetts) discussion list" <bscb-l at acb.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 1:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [bscb-l] shoveling snow
>
>
>>I meant that all the policies referred to in the "whereas" clauses are all 
>>the same type of law that makes homeowners responsible for shoveling 
>>public sidewalks...but I do see that it's not actually specified in the 
>>"therefore be it resolved" part.  I agree with you that we should not 
>>specify how this gets done in our resolution, only that it should be done. 
>>However, when we in BSCB go out and talk to cities and towns personally 
>>(as in the last part of the resolution, which encourages us to advocate in 
>>our own cities and towns), I think we should at least mention that there 
>>are other alternatives besides this blame-the-homeowners thing.  I think 
>>it will end up costing cities and towns more than you realize to 
>>administer all this "disability exemption" paperwork, etc., so if they 
>>have limited budgets to get this done, then they should put all that money 
>>directly into paying for snow clearance, not into creating a new 
>>beaurocracy to determine who gets fined and who doesn't, et
>> c.
>>
>> PS:  Again I want to say that I do support huge fines for individuals who 
>> shovel snow onto the sidewalk, and for cities and towns that allow 
>> snowplow drivers to dump snow onto sidewalks.  That would make a big 
>> difference.
>>
>> --Alison
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bob Hachey" <bhachey at comcast.net>
>> To: "Bay state (Massachusetts) discussion list" <bscb-l at acb.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 1:00:46 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
>> Subject: Re: [bscb-l] shoveling snow
>>
>> Hi Alison,
>> I just reread the proposed resolution and it does not specify as to 
>> whether
>> or not sidewalks should be cleared by municipalities or property owners. 
>> I
>> think we're probably better served this way because if we insist now upon
>> cities and towns taking on the responsibility, i believe it will take us
>> much longer to achieve our goal of cleared sidewalks. Here below is 
>> quoted
>> the resolved clauses and I can't see where it points the finger at either
>> property owners or municipalities.
>> I will be sure that all of the points brought to the fore here will be
>> included in Sunday's discussion.
>> Thanks for weighing in.
>> By the way, Meg Robertson suggested that I take a look at 
>> www.walkboston.com
>> and they seem to favor property owners doing the shoveling. Personally, I
>> agree with you that municipalities should do it, but where will they get 
>> the
>> funding? This is surely not an easy dilemma. I would never support fining 
>> an
>> elder or PWD with low income because they failed to clear their 
>> sidewalks.
>> Bob Hachey
>>
>> "NOW, THEREFORE:
>>
>> BE IT RESOLVED that the Bay State Council of the Blind in convention
>> assembled on this 28th day of March, 2010 in Waltham, Massachusetts 
>> supports
>> the implementation of policies designed to ensure that all sidewalks in 
>> the
>> Commonwealth are cleared of snow within a reasonable time after winter
>> storms and
>>
>>
>>
>> BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that BSCB asks all of its members to work within
>> their local municipalities in support of this goal."
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Alison" <alison2911 at comcast.net>
>> To: "Bay state (Massachusetts) discussion list" <bscb-l at acb.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 11:47 AM
>> Subject: Re: [bscb-l] shoveling snow
>>
>>
>>> The BSCB resolution as it stands right now does specifically call for a
>>> particular approach to sidewalk snow removal: namely, it calls for this
>>> let's-blame-the-homeowners thing.  I say, how about we re-word the
>>> resolution to call on cities and towns to find ways to keep the 
>>> sidewalks
>>> clear within 24 hours after winter storms, period.  Let's at least allow
>>> cities and towns to come up with better solutions than this
>>> blame-the-homeowners idea--better solutions might actually happen in a 
>>> few
>>> cities and towns as long as we don't paint everyone into a corner with
>>> this one specific idea of punishing homeowners--an idea that doesn't
>>> result in uniformly clear sidewalks, only extra red tape and resentment.
>>> On the other hand, imposing huge fines on cities and towns for allowing
>>> snowplows to dump snow on sidewalks would be a much better first step,
>>> because it would be enforceable and it would make a big difference (and 
>>> it
>>> would probably be quite popular with the general public, unlike the idea
>>> we're proposing).  All the arguments I'm seeing on this list for the
>>> blame-the-homeowners idea seem to stem from the attitude that sighted
>>> people who drive cars are "lazy" and they all think people who walk on
>>> sidewalks are "losers" (these are your actual words, folks)--obviously
>>> that kind of resentment isn't very constructive if we're trying to find 
>>> a
>>> good solution to this problem.  Let's try to be problem-solvers here, 
>>> not
>>> just angry haters.  If we encourage creative solutions to this problem,
>>> like Bob's suggestion of having Boy Scouts, etc. do it for cities and
>>> towns as part of their public service projects, or some of Alice's 
>>> various
>>> suggestions, then we will come out much better in the end, with nice 
>>> clear
>>> sidewalks and happy neighbors.
>>>
>>> --Alison
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bob Hachey" <bhachey at comcast.net>
>>> To: "Bay state (Massachusetts) discussion list" <bscb-l at acb.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:33:30 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
>>> Subject: Re: [bscb-l] shoveling snow
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi alice,
>>> Agreed on all points here. Still, if we're going to ask homeowners to
>>> shovel, then we really need to be careful to create policies that assist
>>> elders and PWD to keep their sidewalks clear.
>>> How's this for a compromise. Firstly, in the long run, I'd like to see
>>> municipalities take on this task, but that ain't happenin any time soon.
>>> In the short run, we require homeowners to shovel, but put those who are
>>> unable to either do it themselves or pay to have it done in a special
>>> category whereby they get some sort of assistance. Since so many young
>>> people today are not in good shape, how about we get high school kids to
>>> shovel for neighbors and pay them something like $10.00 per hour?
>>> Alternatively, we could get groups like the boy and girl scouts to do
>>> service projects. They could even earn comunity service merrit badges 
>>> for
>>> such work.
>>> I'm not sure how much if any we want to change the wording in the
>>> resolution since that could paint us into a corner. the goal of the
>>> resolution is to develop policies whereby sidewalks are cleared, not to 
>>> be
>>> divisive by forcing those who are not able to shovel snow or get fined. 
>>> I
>>> realize this means monitoring and probably some paperwork.
>>> This has been an excellent discussion!
>>> Bob Hachye
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: alice dampman Humel
>>> To: bscb-l at acb.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 6:03 PM
>>> Subject: [bscb-l] shoveling snow
>>>
>>>
>>> While I, too, would rather see the city come through and clear the
>>> sidewalks, I still say that the main reason that people do not shovel
>>> their sidewalks is that they are too lazy, and they don't care about the
>>> "losers" that have to walk to the bus. It's not that they aren't able to
>>> clear the sidewalk, they just don't give a damn.
>>> Of course, there are people who can't shovel. But that's not the 
>>> majority.
>>> I have such people right around the corner from me. It's a two-family
>>> house, and I don't know who lives in the other half. But the homeowner
>>> lives in one half, and while he's not the youngest guy, he's no older 
>>> than
>>> I am, and he's not disabled, and he has a perfectly able-bodied young 
>>> son.
>>> They never shovel their sidewalk, even though they have a blind person 
>>> in
>>> the neighborhood who walks past that house every day. And, they *always*
>>> shovel their driveway, and they are one of these that pile all that snow
>>> from the driveway right in the middle of the sidewalk. I've often
>>> fantasized about carrying a snow shovel with me, and when I find one of
>>> those mounds, stopping and shoveling the whole mound right back in the
>>> middle of the driveway, preferably behind their car parked in that nice
>>> clear driveway!!
>>> I had another neighbor with whom it was the same story. She was
>>> able-bodied enough to go to the gym and work out, but she could never 
>>> rake
>>> leaves on her property or shovel snow. And, she also had a 25 year old 
>>> big
>>> strapping son living at home, but Sonny Boy could not be expected to do
>>> such demeaning labor , after all.
>>> Sorry, but it's far more often attitude than it is disability that keeps
>>> people from shoveling.
>>> Alice
>>> alicedh at verizon.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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