[nabs] Jaws vs Window Eyes

Birkir Rúnar Gunnarsson birkir.gunnarsson at gmail.com
Fri Dec 24 07:57:01 GMT 2010 

On 12/24/10, nabs-request at acb.org <nabs-request at acb.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: difference between Jaws 12 and Windows Eyes 7 (Joe Orozco)
>    2. Re: difference between Jaws 12 and Windows Eyes 7 (Anmol Bhatia)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 22:21:11 -0500
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> To: "'Discussion list for NABS,	National Alliance of Blind Students.'"
> 	<nabs at acb.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12 and Windows Eyes 7
> Message-ID: <D245047269184513A75059314841330F at Rufus>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="utf-8"
>
> Anmol,
>
> A few thoughts:
>
> To your first point, I don't think blind people and adaptive technology were
> included in the legislation because the government does not consider this
> unique need any more than most technology companies consider accessibility.
> I agree that perhaps something could be changed if consumer groups aligned
> themselves to add a special provision to existing law, but the recent bill
> was more political than it was practical.  Last time I checked the tax break
> was only temporary, and the salaries it concentrated on go far beyond the
> more real problem of blind people being employed in the first place.
> Further, when it comes to legislative advocacy, consumer groups have a very
> limited capital.  Priorities have to be set, and while I myself am earning
> enough to look for legal loopholes to keep my money, I also understand that
> there are other pressing issues like technology access, pedestrian safety,
> etc. that impact a larger population.
>
> I'm not sure I understand your second point.  If a person is not working,
> tax write-offs are really the least of that person's worries.  If a person
> is making just barely enough for taxes to really matter, there are available
> options out there for things like screen reading technology that do not
> break the bank.  System Access, NVDA and other packages may not be as robust
> as JAWS or Window Eyes, but everything in life is priced according to
> personal value.  While I hate that Freedom Scientific can charge over a
> thousand dollars for its product, we also now live in an environment where
> JAWS is no longer the only option.  If one keeps up with the SMA, you're
> only paying $130 a year for each major upgrade.  Apple, while an awesome
> phenomenon, can still afford to price its products at the steeper end of the
> pool.
>
> I don't know that I agree with your third point about 100% write-off for
> accessible technology regardless of whether it is for work, education or
> personal life.  The first two certainly make sense, but why should someone
> get a break just because they feel they absolutely need to have the latest
> technology?  I have several friends in the rehab arena, and they are amazed
> at how much money is spent on individuals who's only use of a loaded
> computer is to sit at home downloading books and music.  Sighted people do
> not get tax write-offs for their personal computers unless they are running
> a business.  Why should blind people be treated any differently?
>
> Finally, where do you propose these funds come from to sponsor this
> technology?  I have a full-time job and started a business on the side.  I
> have real ambitions, and in the future I hope to be able to be rich enough
> to give back to the community, but tell me why giving away accessible
> technology should be something I rush to do?  What is keeping blind people
> from pursuing their own ambitions and affording their own products and doing
> the exact same philanthropic work I'm envisioning?
>
> Mind you, I'm not challenging your frustrations.  I think they are valid
> points, but something has to give in the equation.  Blind people cannot get
> technology because they cannot work.  They cannot work without the right
> technology, but I have yet to meet a blind person who was unable to find the
> means to get assistance with the first batch of technology.  I do not think
> it is unreasonable to use that technology to full benefit, get a job and
> keep updating that technology as needed to remain competitive.  In other
> words, where do we draw the line between prices and personal responsibility?
>  I hate it when people say, "Well I succeeded, why can't you?"  Yet,
> honestly, I sometimes don't know why it is that some blind people aren't
> gainfully employed.  Is it parenting?  A failed school system?  Poor skills?
>  No self-confidence?  Perhaps these are the real world issues the consumer
> groups should return to addressing before we can make the even bigger leap
> to tax write-offs.  But
>  , find a way to get this issue considered in the halls of Congress, and
> I'll be right there doing my little part to help it pass.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Joe
>
> ?Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all.?--Sam Ewing
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On
> Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 9:07 PM
> To: Ashley Bramlett; National Alliance of Blind
> Students.Discussion list for NABS
> Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12 and Windows Eyes 7
>
> Ashley,
> What I am complaining is the afordability of adaptive
> technology and equipment for blind person. Basically what the
> point I am making is two things:
> 1. recently the President and Congress enacted a tax
> legislation which basically gives everyone some sort off a tax
> brake, but there was included to give some sort of a tax brake
> for blind individuals for perchase of such things as adaptive
> technology.
> 2. I am trying to understand how a person who needs such things
> as a jaws upgrade but can not aford it and is not working in
> order to perchase it and ride it off on taxes.
> 3. I would like to see 100 percent tax ride off for the
> purchase of adaptive technology and equipment directly related
> to one's disability regardless of if it is for work, education
> or just to live a more independent life.
> 4. Finally I would like to see funds available for blind
> individuals to purchase things as adaptive technology and equipment.
> Basically I would like to see some debate and see some action
> from advocacy organizations such as the ACB to make adaptive
> technology and or any tools used by blind individuals to live a
> independent and successful life be made afordable to average
> blind person living on fixed or limited income.
>
> Anmol
> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me
> sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it
> is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
> Hellen Keller
>
>
> --- On Thu, 12/23/10, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> From: Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12 and Windows Eyes 7
>> To: "Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind
> Students." <nabs at acb.org>
>> Date: Thursday, December 23, 2010, 10:46 AM
>> Anmol,
>> Isn't the answer obvious?  If
>> you don't make enough to pay taxes, then you cannot deduct
>> anything from your taxes.  What are you complaining
>> for?
>> Be a tax paying citizen before you complain about the tax
>> structure; and as Sarah said you can deduct as a business
>> expense.
>> I paid taxes when I was an intern in the federal
>> government; but as I haven't paid much as a full time
>> working adult I can't speak much for deductions.  But
>> I'm sure another blind person paying taxes or a accountant
>> can help with those tax questions when the time comes.
>> When I was at the rehab center they showed us  some
>> tax stuff.  I'm pretty sure you can get a copy of the
>> tax forms in braille; of course you can't fill them out, but
>> you can see what the form looks like.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anmol Bhatia"
> <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>
>> To: "National Alliance of Blind Students.Discussion list
>> for NABS" <nabs at acb.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 1:31 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12 and Windows
>> Eyes 7
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Ok but what if I m not making anything or enough to
>> pay any taxes? So the first two percent or 7.5 percent as
>> medical expense is not available for tax ride off?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Anmol
>> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never
>> make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at
>> times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
>> > Hellen Keller
>> >
>> > --- On Thu, 12/23/10, Sarah Clark <goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > From: Sarah Clark <goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net>
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12 and
>> Windows Eyes 7
>> > To: "Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of
>> Blind Students." <nabs at acb.org>
>> > Date: Thursday, December 23, 2010, 12:10 AM
>> >
>> >
>> > ?
>> > Hi Anmol,
>> > I don't know the details of the new tax legislation
>> that was just passed, but based on the most recent laws that
>> have been in use, you can deduct expenses like adaptive
>> technology either as a medical expense or a business
>> (employment) expense. The medical deduction though would
>> normally not be the best option because you can only deduct
>> those expenses once they exceed 7.5% of your income. If you
>> deduct as an employment expense, you're able to deduct those
>> expenses that exceed 2% of your income.
>> >
>> > Sarah
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Anmol Bhatia
>> > To: National Alliance of Blind Students.Discussion
>> list for NABS
>> > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 7:04 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12 and
>> Windows Eyes 7
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > What are some of the options to ride off the perchase
>> of adaptive technology such as a Jaws upgrade on my taxes? I
>> was talking to someone and it
>> > surprised me when he said pretty much the only way for
>> me to ride it off on my taxes would be to say it is for
>> employment. When thinking about all the goodies that pretty
>> everyone mostly the rich got in the last tax agreement
>> reached between the President and Congress it really
>> irritates me that know goodies were included for people with
>> disabilities. Personally if you ask me any adaptive
>> technology or product perchased due to one's disability
>> should be a tax ride off. Just my oppinion and excuse my
>> rants.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Anmol
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never
>> make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at
>> times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
>> > Hellen Keller
>> >
>> > --- On Wed, 12/22/10, Rhonda Partain <partain319 at bellsouth.net>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > From: Rhonda Partain <partain319 at bellsouth.net>
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12 and
>> Windows Eyes 7
>> > To: "'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of
>> Blind Students.'" <nabs at acb.org>
>> > Date: Wednesday, December 22, 2010, 8:38 PM
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> #yiv733436363yiv2049802306yiv269447240
>> LI.yiv733436363yiv2049802306yiv269447240yiv1489067055msonormal3
>> {
>> >
>>
> FONT-SIZE:12pt;MARGIN-LEFT:18.75pt;MARGIN-RIGHT:0in;FONT-FAMILY:
> "serif";}
>> > #yiv733436363 #yiv733436363yiv2049802306
>> #yiv733436363yiv2049802306yiv269447240
>> DIV.yiv733436363yiv2049802306yiv269447240yiv1489067055msonormal3
>> {
>> >
>>
> FONT-SIZE:12pt;MARGIN-LEFT:18.75pt;MARGIN-RIGHT:0in;FONT-FAMILY:
> "serif";}
>> > #yiv733436363 #yiv733436363yiv2049802306
>> #yiv733436363yiv2049802306yiv269447240
>> SPAN.yiv733436363yiv2049802306yiv269447240EmailStyle37 {
>> > COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:"sans-serif";}
>> > #yiv733436363 #yiv733436363yiv2049802306
>> #yiv733436363yiv2049802306yiv269447240
>> .yiv733436363yiv2049802306yiv269447240MsoChpDefault {
>> >
>> > }
>> > #yiv733436363 #yiv733436363yiv2049802306 UNKNOWN {
>> > MARGIN:1in;}
>> > #yiv733436363 #yiv733436363yiv2049802306
>> #yiv733436363yiv2049802306yiv269447240
>> DIV.yiv733436363yiv2049802306yiv269447240WordSection1 {
>> >
>> > }
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Perhaps, Fs is thinking rehab will once again purchase
>> their product for me. Keeping a sma current would be the
>> best option. Wish I had thought of that before.
>> >
>> > Rhonda
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: nabs-bounces at acb.org
>> [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org]
>> On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia
>> > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 4:28 AM
>> > To: National Alliance of Blind Students.Discussion
>> list for NABS
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12 and
>> Windows Eyes 7
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > That is correct Rhonda.
>> >
>> >
>> > I am in the same situation. I have a Jaws 8.0 and in
>> order to upgrade I will need to pay $550. I just can not
>> except having to pay that right now. Freedom Scientific must
>> think that blind people are rich or something, but it is
>> simply not afordable to majority of blind people. However,
>> we almost need it it. If one wants to get a upgrade I would
>> strongly recommend paying extra $200 for the SMA so that the
>> next three releases will be free and my advice would to
>> maintain the SMA. Just my thoughts.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Anmol
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never
>> make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at
>> times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
>> > Hellen Keller
>> >
>> > --- On Tue, 12/21/10, Rhonda Partain <partain319 at bellsouth.net>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: Rhonda Partain <partain319 at bellsouth.net>
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12 and
>> Windows Eyes 7
>> > To: "'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of
>> Blind Students.'" <nabs at acb.org>
>> > Date: Tuesday, December 21, 2010, 3:36 PM
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Yes, they asked me for my serial number and confirmed
>> my name and address and then quoted me that price.
>> >
>> > Rhonda
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: nabs-bounces at acb.org
>> [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org]
>> On Behalf Of webmaster Christopher Wright
>> > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 1:45 PM
>> > To: Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of
>> Blind Students.
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12 and
>> Windows Eyes 7
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Is that what there Sales Department told you?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >
>> > From: Rhonda Partain
>> >
>> >
>> > To: 'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of
>> Blind Students.'
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 1:20 PM
>> >
>> >
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12 and
>> Windows Eyes 7
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I have Jaws 8, so the upgrade price is 500 and
>> some?..not actually in my price range now. Fs doesn?t
>> offer a payment plan like Gwmicro does.
>> >
>> > I guess most purchases are made by government agencies
>> and the like.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks for your thoughts.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Rhonda
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From:
> http://us.mc538.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nabs-bounces@acb.org
>> [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org]
>> On Behalf Of webmaster Christopher Wright
>> > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 12:45 PM
>> > To: Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of
>> Blind Students.
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12 and
>> Windows Eyes 7
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi Rhonda,
>> >
>> >
>> > If you're concern is the cost, you might want to call
>> Freedom Scientific and find out, financially speaking, what
>> your options are. You might also want to visit
> http://www.fsactivate.com/ and press enter on the
>> Continue Product Activation button.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security,
>> version of virus signature database 5706 (20101215)
>> __________
>> >
>> > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>> >
>> > http://www.eset.com/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security,
>> version of virus signature database 5706 (20101215)
>> __________
>> >
>> > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>> >
>> > http://www.eset.com/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs mailing list
>> > nabs at acb.org
>> > http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security,
>> version of virus signature database 5706 (20101215)
>> __________
>> >
>> > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>> >
>> > http://www.eset.com/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security,
>> version of virus signature database 5706 (20101215)
>> __________
>> >
>> > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>> >
>> > http://www.eset.com/
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs mailing list
>> > http://us.mc538.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nabs@acb.org
>> > http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security,
>> version of virus signature database 5706 (20101215)
>> __________
>> >
>> >
>> > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>> >
>> >
>> > http://www.eset.com
>> >
>> >
>> > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security,
>> version of virus signature database 5706 (20101215)
>> __________
>> >
>> > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>> >
>> > http://www.eset.com
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs mailing list
>> > nabs at acb.org
>> > http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs mailing list
>> > nabs at acb.org
>> > http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>> >
>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs mailing list
>> > nabs at acb.org
>> > http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs mailing list
>> > nabs at acb.org
>> > http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs mailing list
>> nabs at acb.org
>> http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs mailing list
> nabs at acb.org
> http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 23:22:56 -0800 (PST)
> From: Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>
> To: jsorozco at gmail.com,	" National Alliance of Blind
> 	Students.Discussion list for NABS"	<nabs at acb.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12 and Windows Eyes 7
> Message-ID: <895160.19396.qm at web53805.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Joe,
> First let me Apologize  to everyone for straying away from the original
> topic of discussing the difference between Jaws and Window Eyes.
>
> I guess my frustration is that all this nice technology which is available
> for the blind is not available unless you are really well off.
>
> I do agree that someone who is not doing anything should not deserve all the
> benefits, for such things which are directly related to one's medical
> condition some sort off a 100 percent tax ride off should be available.
>
> I commend and admire your success, but greater problem of unemployment for
> blind people will never be solved unless we start addressing some issues
> such as making adaptive technology available to average blind person.
> To tie a blind person's not having the ability to find employment to lack of
> parenting or a failed school system is not fair. Blind people do face
> obsticals to getting employment due to the misproseptions and frankly not
> being to aford the neat adaptive technology available on the market.
>
> Just to answer one of my points, the recent tax legislation was frankly in
> my oppinion a big give away for the wealthy and even though it is temporary
> but it demenstrates the priorities of the country. Yes I agree that there
> are more pressing issues:  technology access, pedestrian  safety and ect,
> but making technology afordable should also be a priorities and I wish the
> consumer groups such as ACB would do more in there area.
>
> Anmol
>
> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps
> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze
> among flowers.
> Hellen Keller
>
>
> --- On Thu, 12/23/10, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12 and Windows Eyes 7
>> To: "'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.'"
>> <nabs at acb.org>
>> Date: Thursday, December 23, 2010, 9:21 PM
>> Anmol,
>>
>> A few thoughts:
>>
>> To your first point, I don't think blind people and
>> adaptive technology were included in the legislation because
>> the government does not consider this unique need any more
>> than most technology companies consider accessibility.?
>> I agree that perhaps something could be changed if consumer
>> groups aligned themselves to add a special provision to
>> existing law, but the recent bill was more political than it
>> was practical.? Last time I checked the tax break was
>> only temporary, and the salaries it concentrated on go far
>> beyond the more real problem of blind people being employed
>> in the first place.? Further, when it comes to
>> legislative advocacy, consumer groups have a very limited
>> capital.? Priorities have to be set, and while I myself
>> am earning enough to look for legal loopholes to keep my
>> money, I also understand that there are other pressing
>> issues like technology access, pedestrian safety, etc. that
>> impact a larger population.
>>
>> I'm not sure I understand your second point.? If a
>> person is not working, tax write-offs are really the least
>> of that person's worries.? If a person is making just
>> barely enough for taxes to really matter, there are
>> available options out there for things like screen reading
>> technology that do not break the bank.? System Access,
>> NVDA and other packages may not be as robust as JAWS or
>> Window Eyes, but everything in life is priced according to
>> personal value.? While I hate that Freedom Scientific
>> can charge over a thousand dollars for its product, we also
>> now live in an environment where JAWS is no longer the only
>> option.? If one keeps up with the SMA, you're only
>> paying $130 a year for each major upgrade.? Apple,
>> while an awesome phenomenon, can still afford to price its
>> products at the steeper end of the pool.
>>
>> I don't know that I agree with your third point about 100%
>> write-off for accessible technology regardless of whether it
>> is for work, education or personal life.? The first two
>> certainly make sense, but why should someone get a break
>> just because they feel they absolutely need to have the
>> latest technology?? I have several friends in the rehab
>> arena, and they are amazed at how much money is spent on
>> individuals who's only use of a loaded computer is to sit at
>> home downloading books and music.? Sighted people do
>> not get tax write-offs for their personal computers unless
>> they are running a business.? Why should blind people
>> be treated any differently?
>>
>> Finally, where do you propose these funds come from to
>> sponsor this technology?? I have a full-time job and
>> started a business on the side.? I have real ambitions,
>> and in the future I hope to be able to be rich enough to
>> give back to the community, but tell me why giving away
>> accessible technology should be something I rush to
>> do?? What is keeping blind people from pursuing their
>> own ambitions and affording their own products and doing the
>> exact same philanthropic work I'm envisioning?
>>
>> Mind you, I'm not challenging your frustrations.? I
>> think they are valid points, but something has to give in
>> the equation.? Blind people cannot get technology
>> because they cannot work.? They cannot work without the
>> right technology, but I have yet to meet a blind person who
>> was unable to find the means to get assistance with the
>> first batch of technology.? I do not think it is
>> unreasonable to use that technology to full benefit, get a
>> job and keep updating that technology as needed to remain
>> competitive.? In other words, where do we draw the line
>> between prices and personal responsibility?? I hate it
>> when people say, "Well I succeeded, why can't you?"?
>> Yet, honestly, I sometimes don't know why it is that some
>> blind people aren't gainfully employed.? Is it
>> parenting?? A failed school system?? Poor
>> skills?? No self-confidence?? Perhaps these are
>> the real world issues the consumer groups should return to
>> addressing before we can make the even bigger leap to tax
>> write-offs.? But, find a way to get this issue
>> considered in the halls of Congress, and I'll be right there
>> doing my little part to help it pass.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> ?Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn
>> up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't
>> turn up at all.?--Sam Ewing
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-bounces at acb.org
>> [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 9:07 PM
>> To: Ashley Bramlett; National Alliance of Blind
>> Students.Discussion list for NABS
>> Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12 and Windows
>> Eyes 7
>>
>> Ashley,
>> What I am complaining is the afordability of adaptive
>> technology and equipment for blind person. Basically what
>> the
>> point I am making is two things:
>> 1. recently the President and Congress enacted a tax
>> legislation which basically gives everyone some sort off a
>> tax
>> brake, but there was included to give some sort of a tax
>> brake
>> for blind individuals for perchase of such things as
>> adaptive
>> technology.
>> 2. I am trying to understand how a person who needs such
>> things
>> as a jaws upgrade but can not aford it and is not working
>> in
>> order to perchase it and ride it off on taxes.
>> 3. I would like to see 100 percent tax ride off for the
>> purchase of adaptive technology and equipment directly
>> related
>> to one's disability regardless of if it is for work,
>> education
>> or just to live a more independent life.
>> 4. Finally I would like to see funds available for blind
>> individuals to purchase things as adaptive technology and
>> equipment.
>> Basically I would like to see some debate and see some
>> action
>> from advocacy organizations such as the ACB to make
>> adaptive
>> technology and or any tools used by blind individuals to
>> live a
>> independent and successful life be made afordable to
>> average
>> blind person living on fixed or limited income.
>>
>> Anmol
>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me
>>
>> sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times;
>> but it
>> is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
>> Hellen Keller
>>
>>
>> --- On Thu, 12/23/10, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > From: Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12 and
>> Windows Eyes 7
>> > To: "Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of
>> Blind
>> Students." <nabs at acb.org>
>> > Date: Thursday, December 23, 2010, 10:46 AM
>> > Anmol,
>> > Isn't the answer obvious?? If
>> > you don't make enough to pay taxes, then you cannot
>> deduct
>> > anything from your taxes.? What are you
>> complaining
>> > for?
>> > Be a tax paying citizen before you complain about the
>> tax
>> > structure; and as Sarah said you can deduct as a
>> business
>> > expense.
>> > I paid taxes when I was an intern in the federal
>> > government; but as I haven't paid much as a full time
>> > working adult I can't speak much for deductions.?
>> But
>> > I'm sure another blind person paying taxes or a
>> accountant
>> > can help with those tax questions when the time
>> comes.
>> > When I was at the rehab center they showed us?
>> some
>> > tax stuff.? I'm pretty sure you can get a copy of
>> the
>> > tax forms in braille; of course you can't fill them
>> out, but
>> > you can see what the form looks like.
>> >
>> > Ashley
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anmol Bhatia"
>> <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>
>> > To: "National Alliance of Blind Students.Discussion
>> list
>> > for NABS" <nabs at acb.org>
>> > Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 1:31 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12 and
>> Windows
>> > Eyes 7
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Ok but what if I m not making anything or enough
>> to
>> > pay any taxes? So the first two percent or 7.5 percent
>> as
>> > medical expense is not available for tax ride off?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Anmol
>> > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they
>> never
>> > make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning
>> at
>> > times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
>> > > Hellen Keller
>> > >
>> > > --- On Thu, 12/23/10, Sarah Clark <goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From: Sarah Clark <goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net>
>> > > Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12
>> and
>> > Windows Eyes 7
>> > > To: "Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance
>> of
>> > Blind Students." <nabs at acb.org>
>> > > Date: Thursday, December 23, 2010, 12:10 AM
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ?
>> > > Hi Anmol,
>> > > I don't know the details of the new tax
>> legislation
>> > that was just passed, but based on the most recent
>> laws that
>> > have been in use, you can deduct expenses like
>> adaptive
>> > technology either as a medical expense or a business
>> > (employment) expense. The medical deduction though
>> would
>> > normally not be the best option because you can only
>> deduct
>> > those expenses once they exceed 7.5% of your income.
>> If you
>> > deduct as an employment expense, you're able to deduct
>> those
>> > expenses that exceed 2% of your income.
>> > >
>> > > Sarah
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: Anmol Bhatia
>> > > To: National Alliance of Blind
>> Students.Discussion
>> > list for NABS
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 7:04 PM
>> > > Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12
>> and
>> > Windows Eyes 7
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > What are some of the options to ride off the
>> perchase
>> > of adaptive technology such as a Jaws upgrade on my
>> taxes? I
>> > was talking to someone and it
>> > > surprised me when he said pretty much the only
>> way for
>> > me to ride it off on my taxes would be to say it is
>> for
>> > employment. When thinking about all the goodies that
>> pretty
>> > everyone mostly the rich got in the last tax
>> agreement
>> > reached between the President and Congress it really
>> > irritates me that know goodies were included for
>> people with
>> > disabilities. Personally if you ask me any adaptive
>> > technology or product perchased due to one's
>> disability
>> > should be a tax ride off. Just my oppinion and excuse
>> my
>> > rants.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Anmol
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they
>> never
>> > make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning
>> at
>> > times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
>> > > Hellen Keller
>> > >
>> > > --- On Wed, 12/22/10, Rhonda Partain <partain319 at bellsouth.net>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From: Rhonda Partain <partain319 at bellsouth.net>
>> > > Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12
>> and
>> > Windows Eyes 7
>> > > To: "'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance
>> of
>> > Blind Students.'" <nabs at acb.org>
>> > > Date: Wednesday, December 22, 2010, 8:38 PM
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > #yiv733436363 #yiv733436363yiv2049802306 UNKNOWN
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>> > #yiv733436363yiv2049802306yiv269447240
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>> > #yiv733436363yiv2049802306yiv269447240
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>> "serif";}
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>> > #yiv733436363yiv2049802306yiv269447240
>> >
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>> "serif";}
>> > > #yiv733436363 #yiv733436363yiv2049802306
>> > #yiv733436363yiv2049802306yiv269447240
>> > SPAN.yiv733436363yiv2049802306yiv269447240EmailStyle37
>> {
>> > > COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:"sans-serif";}
>> > > #yiv733436363 #yiv733436363yiv2049802306
>> > #yiv733436363yiv2049802306yiv269447240
>> > .yiv733436363yiv2049802306yiv269447240MsoChpDefault {
>> > >
>> > > }
>> > > #yiv733436363 #yiv733436363yiv2049802306 UNKNOWN
>> {
>> > > MARGIN:1in;}
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>> {
>> > >
>> > > }
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Perhaps, Fs is thinking rehab will once again
>> purchase
>> > their product for me. Keeping a sma current would be
>> the
>> > best option. Wish I had thought of that before.
>> > >
>> > > Rhonda
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From: nabs-bounces at acb.org
>> > [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org]
>> > On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 4:28 AM
>> > > To: National Alliance of Blind
>> Students.Discussion
>> > list for NABS
>> > > Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12
>> and
>> > Windows Eyes 7
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > That is correct Rhonda.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I am in the same situation. I have a Jaws 8.0 and
>> in
>> > order to upgrade I will need to pay $550. I just can
>> not
>> > except having to pay that right now. Freedom
>> Scientific must
>> > think that blind people are rich or something, but it
>> is
>> > simply not afordable to majority of blind people.
>> However,
>> > we almost need it it. If one wants to get a upgrade I
>> would
>> > strongly recommend paying extra $200 for the SMA so
>> that the
>> > next three releases will be free and my advice would
>> to
>> > maintain the SMA. Just my thoughts.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Anmol
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they
>> never
>> > make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning
>> at
>> > times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
>> > > Hellen Keller
>> > >
>> > > --- On Tue, 12/21/10, Rhonda Partain <partain319 at bellsouth.net>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From: Rhonda Partain <partain319 at bellsouth.net>
>> > > Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12
>> and
>> > Windows Eyes 7
>> > > To: "'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance
>> of
>> > Blind Students.'" <nabs at acb.org>
>> > > Date: Tuesday, December 21, 2010, 3:36 PM
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Yes, they asked me for my serial number and
>> confirmed
>> > my name and address and then quoted me that price.
>> > >
>> > > Rhonda
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From: nabs-bounces at acb.org
>> > [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org]
>> > On Behalf Of webmaster Christopher Wright
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 1:45 PM
>> > > To: Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance
>> of
>> > Blind Students.
>> > > Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12
>> and
>> > Windows Eyes 7
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Is that what there Sales Department told you?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > >
>> > > From: Rhonda Partain
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > To: 'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance
>> of
>> > Blind Students.'
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 1:20 PM
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12
>> and
>> > Windows Eyes 7
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I have Jaws 8, so the upgrade price is 500 and
>> > some?..not actually in my price range now. Fs
>> doesn?t
>> > offer a payment plan like Gwmicro does.
>> > >
>> > > I guess most purchases are made by government
>> agencies
>> > and the like.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Thanks for your thoughts.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Rhonda
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From:
>> http://us.mc538.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nabs-bounces@acb.org
>> > [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org]
>> > On Behalf Of webmaster Christopher Wright
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 12:45 PM
>> > > To: Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance
>> of
>> > Blind Students.
>> > > Subject: Re: [nabs] difference between Jaws 12
>> and
>> > Windows Eyes 7
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Hi Rhonda,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > If you're concern is the cost, you might want to
>> call
>> > Freedom Scientific and find out, financially speaking,
>> what
>> > your options are. You might also want to visit
>> http://www.fsactivate.com/ and press enter on the
>> > Continue Product Activation button.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security,
>> > version of virus signature database 5706 (20101215)
>> > __________
>> > >
>> > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>> > >
>> > > http://www.eset.com/
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security,
>> > version of virus signature database 5706 (20101215)
>> > __________
>> > >
>> > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>> > >
>> > > http://www.eset.com/
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > nabs mailing list
>> > > nabs at acb.org
>> > > http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security,
>> > version of virus signature database 5706 (20101215)
>> > __________
>> > >
>> > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>> > >
>> > > http://www.eset.com/
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security,
>> > version of virus signature database 5706 (20101215)
>> > __________
>> > >
>> > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>> > >
>> > > http://www.eset.com/
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > nabs mailing list
>> > > http://us.mc538.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nabs@acb.org
>> > > http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security,
>> > version of virus signature database 5706 (20101215)
>> > __________
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > http://www.eset.com
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security,
>> > version of virus signature database 5706 (20101215)
>> > __________
>> > >
>> > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>> > >
>> > > http://www.eset.com
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > nabs mailing list
>> > > nabs at acb.org
>> > > http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > nabs mailing list
>> > > nabs at acb.org
>> > > http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>> > >
>> > > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > nabs mailing list
>> > > nabs at acb.org
>> > > http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > nabs mailing list
>> > > nabs at acb.org
>> > > http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>> > >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs mailing list
>> > nabs at acb.org
>> > http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>> >
>>
>>
>> ? ? ?
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs mailing list
>> nabs at acb.org
>> http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs mailing list
>> nabs at acb.org
>> http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs mailing list
> nabs at acb.org
> http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>
>
> End of nabs Digest, Vol 15, Issue 77
> ************************************
>
I agree with Joe here.
If a blind person is working or in school there are resources and
funds available to assist that person with purchasing the necessary
technology. If the person is employed it is, at lesat partly, the
employers responsibility to purchase or lease the technology to enable
the individual to work.
Part of the problem seems to be that each state, and sometimes each
district, has different agencies and different rules so there is no
universal way to find out what one qualifies for and how to get it.
If a person is using the computer for entertainment and very basic
things, NVDA is fully capable of handling the vast majority of these
tasks, and it is free. One does not need the latest Jaws or Window
Eyes to listen to music, do word processing, browsing the internet,
sending emails etc.
I won't get into whether these products are priced unfairly, I just do
not know enough to make a judgement on that, but I do know that there
are more affordable options out there now, even braille displays are
finally, slowly, coming down in price and you can get a 40-cell new
display for under $2000 now, as opposed to almost $5000 a couple of
years ago. Another 50% reduction would really bring these devices
within the range of many users.
I don't think we should get everything for free because we're blind,
those who need it and cannot have it should be given assistance, but
those who can afford it and want the luxury of the latest screen
reader for personal reasons should also be in a position to pay for
it.
I think the way forward for blind people is better help with
education, better technology to make sure we have access to education
material, state or agency help with employment (in some European
countries, for instance, the government agrees to pay parts of a blind
employees salary for the first 6 to 12 months so the employer can hire
a blind individual and have them come up to speed and solve technology
issues without having to pay them 100% for it).
Ultimately we do not want to live off social security (and it is very
difficult). We want to go out there, live, work, learn, research and
succeed, and our focus should be on that, not on what adaptive
technology we can have, unless that technology is the means to that
goal.
Thanks and happy holidays everyone.

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