[nabs] Fw: Accessibility Questions for MML+

Mon Aug 1 18:59:36 EDT 2011

Ashley,

I do believe that one should have a reader when dealing with math. It is a
very difficult concept to learn if you cannot physically see the graphs and
charts. I used a reader and believe it is the best way to approach any sort
of math course. I took basic math lab, elementary algebra, intermediate
algebra, and contemporary math and look forward to a statistics class in the
future. A reader was my saving grace in all of those courses, because I
don't know nemmeth code and didn't have the time to learn it when I needed
to. I learned enough to get by, but not enough to actually read a textbook
and be able to completely workout a problem in Braille. I am sure that APH
has materials to make tactile graphics and with a little bit of creativity
they can be made with materials you can get at a hobby shop like pipe
cleaners and such. I wish anyone taking a math class luck, as it is a very
cumbersome subject for me personally.

Alicia

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of
bookwormahb at earthlink.net
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 4:51 PM
To: Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.
Subject: Re: [nabs] Fw: Accessibility Questions for MML+

Alicia,
It seems to me many in ACB think technology can solve all our issues, and 
that isn't the case. Unless you have
tactile graphics or a tiger embosser to produce tactile graphics, math is 
not accessible via a computer.
Math books have diagrams, charts and graphs. How would you make a pie chart 
accessible or a scatter  plot or a function graph accessible on a computer?
Um, to my knowledge, there is no way. Remember Birkir just told us that 
rendering math books in electronic
format via Word is not accessible. Yes online math software like MML would 
be more accessible with HTML.
But that doesn't solve the accessibility of the  graphs and the textbook. 
All blind students I know have had to use a reader;  some have used RFB but 
they still had to copy down the problems. Math is something where you have 
to work the problems out; teachers do not care as much about the answer; 
they want to see the five, six or seven steps you took to solve the problem.

So a blind student would work the problems in braille if they know it, and 
then for a test they dictate the work to a scribe.
Some math can be done on the computer; it depends on what class.

I believe braille will be very valuable in this case for homework.
I think APH has materials to make tactile graphs. I have tunnel vision and 
used it to see the graphs and charts; with numbers and word problems, I used

a reader. I also had my first math class in college, preparing for college 
math, in audio from RFB.
I had to copy down the stuff from the book the reader was reading.  Math is 
a weak skill for me too, and I just barely got through it.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Starner, Alicia M.
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 9:59 AM
To: 'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'
Subject: Re: [nabs] Fw: Accessibility Questions for MML+

Amen! I agree with you 100%. There is no reason why in this day and age with
the technological advances that are available to us that classes should be
unaccessible. For me as a totally blind person, math concepts were extremely
difficult and took a lot of time to comprehend, but that should not be
compounded by textbooks that are not accessible and supplemental programs
such as MML that are largely unusable. Good luck with your math course and
hope it goes well.

Alicia

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Birkir
R. Gunnarsson
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 8:19 AM
To: nabs at acb.org
Subject: Re: [nabs] Fw: Accessibility Questions for MML+

Hi

You can take the class but also file the appropriate complaints. And
if you are refused accessible textbook material and a reader, and you
have no money to pay one, there's no way you can do the class anyway.
Math is not accessible in a Word file unless it is extremely simple
math or if it is created using MathType plug in. Publishers havenot,
thus far, botherred to do that, it is quite a bit of work.
But you can do the course but also file the complaint. If we do not do
that and we find work arounds, sometimes at our own expense, our
problems will never become a priority for anyone, and a long term
solution will never be found.
Unemployment rate amongst blind kids is staggering, I believe over
70%, it's not because we're stupid or unambitiou, or because social
security is so high it's better than working, it's in large part
because the world works visually and there's to little attention paid
to people who can't use that medium, espcially true with books and
text books. As we move into eBooks and online platforms there is 0
reason this should not be different. All that designers and content
authors have to do is to follow guidelines and standards that usually
result in better experience for everyone (remember our problems are
similar to those of people using cell phones to access online sites).
That's why we must speak up at every opportunity, rather than fail
courses, or barely pass, may be at our own expense.
And ther's no reason one couldn't do both, try to take the course, but
also draw attention to the fact the school needs to find a different
platform that is accessible to all, or that the platform provider has
to take steps to include everyone.
Of course it's ultimately up to Netta to decide what she wants to do,
but it's important to know she has every right to demand accessible
education, at whatever cost to the school, and that accessibility to
math can be achieved quite easily with the willingness and the right
tools.
Cheers and good luck
-B
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