[nabs] foreign professors

[Carly]

Hi, Alicia,

         But you just said he is a good teacher for such a course. If 
you really believe that,  the presence of an accent ought to be part 
of that authenticity for which you believe, gives said professor such 
an edge.  'Seems you gotta be ready to embrace the WHOLE, package 
including an accent. but as you say, try talking with him, but gently 
like, and not with a tone of ethnocentrism or too much American 
entitlement. Remember as you are talking to the professor of your 
belief that his perspective on the issue at hand is an authentic one. 
Remember to tell him that, and not dwell on how you think he falls 
short of an ideal.

Of course professor will be offended  that someone has a problem with 
something the instructor is powerless, to effect!
Keep us posted, Alicia.for today,
Carteacher doesn't
>speak English well cannot be a reason to drop a class. I know some of
>us who've gone lengths to pass a class with a professor like that. If
>an instructor for a class has thick accents, perhaps an electronic
>communication (email) would be a solution. Think about this for a
>moment: can you judge a professor just because of his or her oral
>communication? Is bad English from a professor a reason to drop a
>class that is crucial for a degree? Certaintly not, right? Even for a
>science professor, one could send him or her an email asking them to
>explain in email what he or she has taught in lecture, with requests
>for terms and other sites of interest that talks about the subject in
>question. Then the professor would email you the reply with the
>answers, thereby supplementing the lecture and making up the could
>have been lost knowledge with electronic backups (with clearer
>English).
>* As for the debate on english as an oral language versus English as
>written language: I personally view that both modes of communication
>supplements one another. As part of a generation of students where
>English is not our first language, I often find that people value both
>communication strategies after initially being impressed at our
>written work. For instance, when we write to mailing lists or compose
>an essay, people who meet us for the first time assume that we are
>native english speakers; however, after listening to our talk, these
>people become amazed at the fact that we speak English just like
>native persons even though we might have accents. In other cases, some
>people would assume that we don't speak a given language because we
>might have accents; then their views would change when they see our
>written work. Since these two modes supplement one another, it would
>defeat the statement that " ... universities should not hire
>professors who don't speak good English ..." when their written
>communication might be superb, hence the suggestion about email
>communication, if desired.
>* Obtaining necessary materials for class and such: As an engineering
>student like Tyler, I do need assistance with understanding graphical
>materials. I sometimes use tactile graphics maker for this purpose;
>however, I use this option rarely, seeing that I get most of the
>information from online sources, including descriptions posted on
>websites, encyclopedias, alternative textbooks and so forth. If I do
>use tactile graphics maker, it is because the graphical information is
>too complex to be described by text, including diagrams for graph
>theory, vector graphs, physics diagrams and other useful ones.
>As for textbooks, I use Bookshare (I dare not use Learning Alley/RFBD,
>since I need precise textual info) and useful websites (searching from
>Google). If I don't find the exact textbook I need, I use alternative
>textbooks which covers similar topics from lectures. as for content,
>some websites are up to date, while books gives insightful info and
>other resources on similar topics.
>* Notetaking, student interactions and misc comments: I don't take
>notes in classes; if I do, they are sparse, since I write short
>descriptions on what the professor is talking about and few examples
>(either what the teacher is writing or my own). If I do talk to a
>sighted person next to me, I ask questions on what the professor is
>drawing and, in some cases, ask the person to trace the drawing on my
>hand.
>However, from my experiences and from what my friends told me, it is
>actually better to preview the material before the lecture, which
>saves time on notetaking and allows the student to absorb the
>information better.
>Hope this helps.
>Cheers,
>JL
>
>On 8/20/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > Tyler,
> > A professor needs to speak to students. I contend that a qualification of
>a
> > that
> > job is to communicate orally and  in written. If you cannot communicate
>with
> > students, then how on earth can you be an effective teacher?
> > A main part of a professor's job is communicating, for crying out loud!
> > How can you learn if you cannot understand a professor?  Yes they may have
> > tons of book knowledge. But if they cannot speak to you to communicate
>that
> > knowledge, that renders that
> > knowledge useless!  I'd say a student should bring their concerns to the
> > dean's attention. Not understanding a professor is not just a blindness
> > issue; its  a learning issue for all students. Want to bet other students
> > are either dropping the class or struggling to learn as well due to the
> > accent issue?
> >
> > Haven't you been to a store, a bank or a restaurant where you cannot get
>the
> > service you want because the staff cannot speak good english?
> > Believe me I have. At Mcdonalds its happened; at other establishments like
> > 711 its happened; all staff are Indian there.
> > No I do not discriminate on the basis of nationality. Frankly, I do not
>care
> > where you came from. Come from Mars, come from Kenya, come from South
> > Africa. But if you communicate with the public or you teach in a public
> > school/college, do speak english.
> > I hate the language barrier. I cannot just look around a store to find
>what
> > I need; I need them to speak not only clear english but have good customer
> > service skills to get me what I want. And for a college class, I want to
> > learn as much as I can. I want to hear what is presented well.  Having
> > someone take notes for me  leaves me with nothing to do and I will zone
>out.
> > This has nothing to do with equal rights. If you read the job
>qualifications
> > for a receptionist,
> > a clerical worker, a sales representative or cashier, etc it says
>"ability
> > to communicate orally and in writing" so this is an essential skill that
> > human resources looks for.
> > colleges should see that professors can communicate well because that is
> > their job to teach.
> > Ashley
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Littlefield, Tyler
> > Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 11:43 PM
> > To: Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.
> > Subject: Re: [nabs] foreign professors
> >
> >>Universities should not hire teachers who cannot speak clear English.
> > Wow... I'm not really sure how to respond to that comment. First, I find
> > it kind of funny that half the people that can't speak "clear English"
> > in this country speak and write it better than most of the citizens
> > here. Second, I find it rather ironic that you're talking about the ADA
> > and in the next paragraph you make a comment on discrimenation based on
> > language. IT's not ok to not hire a blind person, but should someone not
> > speak clear English, it's all well and fine. It is harder to understand
> > some of these people, I will admit to that. But I usually find that the
> > teachers from other countries who have came here and done really well
> > for themselves know the topic they're teaching a lot bettter than most.
> >
> > On 8/20/2011 9:34 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote:
> >> Yvonne,
> >> I agree that any  notes that a professor displays such as powerpoint
> >> slides or notes on the LCD screen need to be given to the blind student,
> >> most likely in an email format.  I received most of my notes via
> >> email attachment. But like you, I had to remind professors to do this and
> >> sometimes they never sent them to me unless I got the disability
>counselor
> >>
> >> involved or the professor sent the notes weeks after we went over it in
> >> class.
> >> Most of the professors sent it to me after class, maybe the same day, but
> >> after class so I
> >> could Not follow along in class. Yvonne, if your professors sent you
>notes
> >>
> >> before class, be thankful. This way you know what the topics are; or you
> >> can even read them in class on a notetaker if you have one. You can
>follow
> >>
> >> along with everyone else.
> >> I went through college with just listening to lectures and not having the
> >> benefit of seeing the powerpoints in class.
> >> Generally, I could follow it though and not
> >> feel lost. But if professors delivered lectures in a disorderly way or
>did
> >>
> >> not transition well and announce the next topic, it was hard to follow
>and
> >>
> >> I was lost.
> >> I agree that advocacy for accessible notes helps prevent you from being
> >> lost.
> >>
> >> But remember college is delivered via lecture; its not high school where
> >> students copy notes and vocabulary from the board.
> >> So if Alicia cannot understand the lecture, I do not see much benefit to
> >> notes. Most of the time powerpoint or board notes supplement the lecture.
> >> They are not a transcript of the lecture.
> >>
> >> I would change professors if at all possible if I could not understand
>the
> >>
> >> professor. I would not want to pay for a class where I could not learn
>the
> >>
> >> information due to the professor's inability to speak clear English.
> >>
> >> I say this because its easy for us to get wrapped up in advocating for
> >> accessible notes. That is very important and I have done my share of it.
> >> But from my experience, accessible notes do not make or break a grade.
>All
> >>
> >> students have to listen carefully and take notes. You are not spoon fed
> >> information.
> >> That is why listening skills are critical to any college student's
> >> success. What makes a good grade is showing up to class, listening,
>taking
> >>
> >> notes in braille or your prefered medium like a laptop, asking questions,
> >> participating in class discussions and doing your homework. That is what
> >> makes the grade. Accessible notes just supplement what you already should
> >> learn from listening to the lecture. Therefore if you cannot understand
> >> the lecture, you are missing over 75 percent
> >> of what the professor is trying to teach you.  Universities should not
> >> hire teachers who cannot speak clear English.
> >>
> >> Ashley
> >>
> >> -----Original Message----- From: Yvonne
> >> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 9:59 PM
> >> To: 'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.'
> >> Subject: Re: [nabs] foreign professors
> >>
> >> Most of my professors used power point that they would send to me before
> >> class so I could follow along. Some of them I had to remind just about
> >> every
> >> week, but it was worth it not to be lost.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of
> >> chris
> >> nusbaum
> >> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 9:27 PM
> >> To: Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.
> >> Subject: Re: [nabs] foreign professors
> >>
> >> Hi Alicia,
> >>
> >> You mentioned the Professor's notes. If he has notes for the lecture,
> >> could you email him and see if he could email you the notes he took
> >> for the lecture? That is, if he did his notes in English! *smile* If
> >> he can email the notes to you, you can study the notes either at home
> >> or on your notetaker during the lecture if you have one. It would then
> >> be straight from the horse's mouth... the exact notes on which the
> >> professor is basing his lecture. Maybe this will work! Hope this idea
> >> helps!
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >> On 8/20/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>> Hi Alicia,
> >>> What a tough class then. I would see if there is another professor
> >> teaching
> >>> the class next semester.
> >>> Could you wait to take it then or next year, perhaps? If he only teaches
> >>> that class, he is an adjunct  professor and may not be there long. If he
> >>> cannot be understood, probably other students cannot and will give him
> >>> bad
> >>> evaluations.
> >>> He'll probably be gone within a few semesters if not sooner.  Yes, I
> >>> think
> >>> it is the university's fault to hire an instructor who students cannot
> >>> understand. Remember, generally college is not like high school; I know
> >>> styles vary among professors. But in high school lots of notes were
>given
> >> by
> >>> the teacher along with class discussions and assignments such as
> >> worksheets.
> >>> In college, its my experience that it is lecture based with some
> >> discussion
> >>> and other activities thrown in such as a group activity, video, maybe a
> >>> review game. Professors might write a little on the board like an
>outline
> >> or
> >>> proper names so students can spell them right or use powerpoint, but
>most
> >>> information is delivered via lecture, unless its an english class where
> >> they
> >>> write more on the board.
> >>>
> >>> My point is that I'm sure other students are just as frustrated as you
> >>> because they cannot understand him and therefore cannot benefit from the
> >>> lecture.
> >>> I'd bring your concerns up to the department dean and bring other
> >>> students
> >>> along. If you really have to take the class now, hopefully he follows
>the
> >>> textbook; if he does, study the textbook more than what he says in
>class.
> >>> Sit up front to be able to hear him'; maybe you could ask him to talk
> >>> slower. If other students understand him, maybe they could summarize the
> >>> lecture for you.
> >>> Maybe get a notetaker; but as I said, notes from professors usually just
> >>> supplement the lecture; when I see powerpoints, often its merely a list
> >>> of
> >>> topics and maybe defining some key words.
> >>>
> >>> I have taken classes with professors who are foreign, but I understood
> >> most
> >>> of what they said. It does not sound as bad as your situation. If I did
> >> not
> >>> understand a word/phrase, I put a question mark in my notes, and asked
> >>> the
> >>> professor to repeat it after class or during office hours; they were
> >> usually
> >>> happy to say it again. I just said, "sorry, I did not catch what you
>said
> >>> after xx theory. What was that and can you spell that name?" They would
> >>> do
> >>> so. But I did this to fill in gaps, not for the whole lecture. I found
> >> that
> >>> when they spelled words I could not understand and spoke to me slower on
> >>> a
> >>> one to one basis, we were able to work it out.
> >>>
> >>> I hope you can find an alternative professor, or take the course online.
> >>>
> >>> Ashley
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: Starner, Alicia M.
> >>> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 6:57 PM
> >>> To: 'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'
> >>> Subject: [nabs] foreign professors
> >>>
> >>> Hello All,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I kind of know what I am going to do, but thought I would get some input
> >>> from all of you. This semester is the first time I have come across a
> >>> foreign professor with such a strong accent. ON the first day of classes
> >>> there was only room for me in the back of the classroom, so I went in
>and
> >>> took a seat. I had a very difficult time understanding the professor. I
> >> left
> >>> the classroom thinking that I will go back and sit up front. On Friday
> >> that
> >>> is just what I did, but I still walked out of class not understanding
> >>> him.
> >> I
> >>> did understand the video he was playing, but couldn't understand a word
> >>> he
> >>> was saying. My first thought was drop the course and see if there was
> >>> another instructor that taught the course, but I learned that he is the
> >> only
> >>> instructor that teaches the course. I feel I am at a double disadvantage
> >> if
> >>> I can't see his notes and I can't understand a word he is saying. I
> >> started
> >>> to send an email to the access office, but decided it probably isn't an
> >>> issue for her. It is not really her fault or the universities fault I
> >> don't
> >>> understand a word this man says. I even recorded the lecture to see if I
> >>> could understand him better at home, but the recording was even worse.
> >> Does
> >>> anyone have any suggestions? I thought about dropping the course and
> >> seeing
> >>> if he teaches the course online, but don't know what to do. What would
> >>> you
> >>> all do if in the same situation.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Alicia Starner
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> ----
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs mailing list
> >>> nabs at acb.org
> >>> http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Take care,
> > Ty
> > my website:
> > http://tds-solutions.net
> > my blog:
> > http://tds-solutions.net/blog
> > skype: st8amnd127
> > My programs don't have bugs; they're randomly added features!
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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