[nabs] Access to books and notes, was foreign professors

Sun Aug 21 16:16:11 EDT 2011

Well said Ashley. I think reader services were very helpful to me in my math and science classes. Math is a very visual subject; therefore, it requires someone to actually explain the format of the problem. A computer just couldn’t do that for me. In addition, it couldn’t explain the diagrams or charts in my biology textbook that enhanced the concepts discussed in the text. A reader clarified that information for me and actually made it understandable without being able to see it. It would be a huge disservice if VR discontinued reader service for their clients, simply because they feel college access offices should provide that service. The bottom line is that not all colleges do. Matter of fact, my university does not provide a reader for nothing other than the exams. If I needed assistance with a math course, for example, I would be on my own to figure that out. I am a transfer student who started at the community college before transferring to the university this semester. 

Alicia

From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 2:59 PM
To: Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.
Subject: Re: [nabs] Access to books and notes, was foreign professors

Laura,

I do not think you should choose a college based on the disability service accomodations.

Know what? Many colleges do not even have a disability service student’s office; such schools are either small schools or private schools. Therefore I’ve known students who provide all their accomodations.  Disability offices do not listen. I asked last semester for jaws to be upgraded and installed on multiple computers at campus. There is more than one blind student at school. They did not upgrade jaws.

Nova does not scan books; instead all they can do is request the book from the publisher after you buy it. Then if that fails to work, they outsource the scanning.  Yes if a disability office exists, they should provide accessible material. But some do not.

As to readers, if I encountered that problem, I’d get an advocacy organization involved like ACB if I was a member. Isn’t that what the advocacy organizations are for? State vr needs to provide reader funds. Some subjects are just visual and you need a reader to read to you and make tactile diagrams.

I do not agree  with VR if they cut off reader funds. They are still needed despite the technology we have. I had a print grammar book. If I could not hire a reader, I would have dropped the course. The disability office does not scan books as I said; I’d have to send my book away for two weeks to get it scanned if I wanted it.

But you see, the book was  not scannable anyway. It was loaded with marks like underlines to indicate grammar of subject vs predicate. It had abbreviations above the words like LV for linking verb, tv for transitive verb, etc. So a reader was quite helpful in reading this and telling me the abbreviations. Actually we struggled through it as there was so much he/she was

wonder how to read it. Point is that a reader could explain it where as a computer could not.

Ashley

From: Laura <mailto:orangebutterfly87 at gmail.com>  Glowacki 

Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 12:12 PM

To: Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind <mailto:nabs at acb.org>  Students. 

Subject: Re: [nabs] Access to books and notes, was foreign professors

Ashley,

I've actually heard that some VR counselors won't provide money for readers anymore because bookshare, RFB, and DS offices are responsible for textbook conversion.  That's they're reasoning; I'm not saying I agree certainly.

I'm also not thrilled about blind students having to scan many of their own books.  I can understand a couple maybe, particularly in circumstances where the DS office is too busy with the rest of their books or where you get a book from Amazon at the last minute or something.  However, it should be a DS office's responsibility to scan and hopefully do some sort of cursory proofreading job on the student's textbooks.  My best friend goes to a small private Bible college with hardly any DS services to speak of.  I can almost garantee that she spent as much time scanning her books as she did going to class, if not more, and that was every single semester.  While I think it's important blind students be able to scan their own materials, I desperately hope that it never becomes their prime responsibility to complete that task.

Laura

On 8/20/2011 11:18 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: 

Zack,

That is how I feel. The disability office is not with the current times and is not educated about access laws and of course not educated about blindness.

I try to work directly with professors as well.  To the disability staff, you are a student ID, a number on a long list of students.

You can use bookshare and your own membership to Learning Ally/RFB to obtain your books, or scan them yourself.

Or you can be old fashioned and hire a reader!  Gasp, surprise,, hire a reader via your own funds or funds from VR. Yes its not as common with electronic texts and scanners now a days, but readers can skim and read what you want; it gets the job done.

We agree that working with the disability  support staff is frustrating. At nova, community college, they are way behind. They fail to provide enough assistive technology. Jaws is very old in the library and only one computer with jaws there. Nova also makes you take tests with readers who are inadaquate readers.  Okay either get a good reader or let the student take it electronically with an updated piece of assistive technology. 

Students took tests with readers twenty years ago, and they still do today at nova.

I like hiring readers; but the difference is I determine who is qualified; I test them to see if they can read clearly. The disability staff does not sample their reading quality before hiring them.

Ashley

From: Zack <mailto:zack.olson.85 at gmail.com>  Olson 

Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 11:43 PM

To: Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind <mailto:nabs at acb.org>  Students. 

Subject: Re: [nabs] foreign professors

Anne,

Basically, the Chafey Amendment provides for accessible textbooks and other accessible print matter for the blind and visually impaired.  The Chafey Amendment is why Bookshare is possible.  The language of it is a bit confusing, but basically as far as university disability support is concerned, it means that any disability support office at any U.S. university (or junior/community college, etc.) doesn’t need the go-ahead from the book publisher to conver the book into an accessible format as long as the student has already purchased the print version of the book, and as long as it will be exclusively used by students with documented visual or other print disabilities. 

Frankly, I like Bookshare much more than dealing with my disability support people.  They’re about ten years in the past as far as their policy and procedures go.  It makes working with them very frustrating.  Most of the blind/VI students here try to go out of their way not to have to deal with them by working directly with professors, departments, etc.  

From: Ann Pimley <mailto:apomerai at verizon.net>  

Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 10:19 PM

To: 'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind <mailto:nabs at acb.org>  Students.' 

Subject: Re: [nabs] foreign professors

Zack, 

Please explain what is “the Chafy Amendment?” 

Ann

From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Zack Olson
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 11:01 PM
To: Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.
Subject: Re: [nabs] foreign professors

Hello,

yes, it is required under ADA/504 that either you get electronic notes from the professor or that your disability assistance office provides a scribe.  I’ve brushed up on my ADA a bit in the last year, as my university likes to provide pretty much the minimum as far as ADA regulations are concerned.  Now if only they’d brush up on the Chafy Amendment, things would be awesome.  

Anyway, definitely contact your disability support people and inquire about a note-taker.

Hope it works out for you. 

From: Ann Pimley <mailto:apomerai at verizon.net>  

Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 9:54 PM

To: 'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind <mailto:nabs at acb.org>  Students.' 

Subject: Re: [nabs] foreign professors

Alicia, 

Does the instructor write on the board, or show powerpoints in class? You said that “if I can’t see his notes,” so doesn’t he give you electronic copies of his notes or powerpoints? Does the college provide you with a reader/scribe? I believe that under the ADA and Section 504, either the instructor has to provide you with lecture notes that he writes on the board and powerpoints, or the college needs to provide you with a scribe that will copy all the written information down. I always insisted on having a reader/scribe when I was attending a community college, even if I got the powerpoints electronically. At one point when the Office for Students with Disabilities said they did not have any more scribes I contacted the college lawyer and insisted on getting someone. Your Access Office is probably responsible to make sure that you get class information in an accessible format, so I would think you should contact them. They should either ask the professor to send you lecture notes and powerpoints, or provide you with a reader/scribe. If he is so hard to understand then probably it would be better to get a copy of his lecture notes, because a reader/scribe might not be able to understand him either. 

I will start at a 4 year university next spring and I don’t know yet what their policy is. If I think it does not follow the law, I am willing to fight for my rights there also. 

I have heard of other students having the same problem with a language barrier, and they dropped the class and took it somewhere else. I am not sure what is the college’s responsibility to make sure that students can understand the professor. I had one instructor that was slightly hard to understand, but she always sent me her lecture notes or powerpoints before class so I could look them over. 

Please do let us know about what happens with your situation, and good luck to you. 

Ann 

From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Starner, Alicia M.
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 6:57 PM
To: 'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.'
Subject: [nabs] foreign professors

Hello All,

I kind of know what I am going to do, but thought I would get some input from all of you. This semester is the first time I have come across a foreign professor with such a strong accent. ON the first day of classes there was only room for me in the back of the classroom, so I went in and took a seat. I had a very difficult time understanding the professor. I left the classroom thinking that I will go back and sit up front. On Friday that is just what I did, but I still walked out of class not understanding him. I did understand the video he was playing, but couldn’t understand a word he was saying. My first thought was drop the course and see if there was another instructor that taught the course, but I learned that he is the only instructor that teaches the course. I feel I am at a double disadvantage if I can’t see his notes and I can’t understand a word he is saying. I started to send an email to the access office, but decided it probably isn’t an issue for her. It is not really her fault or the universities fault I don’t understand a word this man says. I even recorded the lecture to see if I could understand him better at home, but the recording was even worse. Does anyone have any suggestions? I thought about dropping the course and seeing if he teaches the course online, but don’t know what to do. What would you all do if in the same situation.

Thanks,

Alicia Starner

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