[nabs] foreign professors

[bookwormahb at earthlink.net]

Amen, Ann that is exactly what I tried to say and some don’t get it or have a different opinion. If your job is to communicate via a lecture, then you need good and clear english skills. You can be a genius about your subject, but if you fail to communicate it to your audience—in this case the students, then you are not performing your job as a teacher.  People need to be hired on their knowledge, skills and abilities; that is right.

Oh, Ann is right. The only big accents I came across and expected to have them were in spanish class. My teachers had accents as they spoke english. But we could all understand them.

Ashley

From: Ann Pimley 
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 3:41 PM
To: 'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.' 
Subject: Re: [nabs] foreign professors

It seems to me that all professors working in the US should speak fluent English and should speak it clearly so  they are understood, unless they are teaching a foreign language. I find it hard to understand why this professor was hired in the first place. People are usually hired for jobs based on whether they have the knowledge, skills,  and ability to perform the job. If the students can not understand the professor, then he is not doing his job of teaching a subject. People aren’t usually hired based on whether they are friendly, or nice unless that is a major part of the job description, i.e. a customer service position. People may have the knowledge to perform a job, but if they can’t transition that into actions to perform the job, then they are not meeting job performance standards. So, why are some people saying it is OK for the professor to not be able to communicate the material clearly to the class? Students are there and paying money to learn, and if they can’t understand the professor, then they can’t learn from the lecture. 

 

If no previous students were willing to tell him, how was he going to know there was a problem? I think it is a good idea that Alisha tell him. If he is smart enough to have a PHD, and has been at the university for a long time, then he should have had time to learn and practice his speaking skills. One solution while he works on his speaking skills is that he make very detailed powerpoints that include everything he is going to lecture on, and they are available for the class. He should also learn to speak slower so people can understand him. Maybe Alisha and he can set up a secret code that she can do to help him realize that he is talking too fast, like twirling her pencil/pen in a circle, or some other gesture that will tell him he is speaking too fast without always having to say it in front of the class. This way you can help him without embarrassing him. 

 

Ann 

From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Starner, Alicia M.
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 10:24 AM
To: 'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.'
Subject: Re: [nabs] foreign professors

 

Car,

 

I do think that someone needs to start somewhere and I am not belittling him at all. I am just simply trying to figure out what others have done about instructors who they don’t understand due to an accent, a lisp, or any other speech problem that may cause communication difficulty. IN my opinion, putting a professor in front of an entire classroom of students who doesn’t understand him is the same as putting a deaf student in the classroom without an interpreter. I fully understand that he speaks a foreign language; therefore, his accent is difficult to understand, but I honestly believe there should be a middle ground for those who don’t understand. I think that talking to the professor is the best course of action, which was the way I was leaning towards anyway. I believe that dropping the course simply because of his accent is not the answer, because he is the only one that teachs this course and has been at the school a long time. I want to learn from him, as I believe he is a great person to be teaching the class, but want to be able to learn. The language barrier does hinder my ability to learn, as I get most of my information about the course content from lecture rather than the textbook. 

 

Alicia

 

From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Carly
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 8:58 AM
To: Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.; 'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.'
Subject: Re: [nabs] foreign professors

 




Good morning, Alicia,

At 04:41 AM 8/21/2011, Starner, Alicia M. wrote:

Don't you feel someone must start somewhere and that, if the university were to make such a big thing of someone's accent, that could unleash all kinds of litigation potential? I think it wise to remember that, someone has to begin their English speaking identity, somewhere. But See what happens talking with the professor.

for today,
Car



"----=_NextPart_000_0052_01CC5FCD.4AFC60D0"
Content-language: en-us

Hello All,
 
This professor does not use power point. He lectures and writes notes on the white board behind him as he goes. I will talk to him about the language barrier and see if perhaps there are some notes that I can get from him. Perhaps his lecture notes are on a sheet of paper on the podium. That is a good possibility. The other thing I have thought about is dropping the course and seeing if it is available online, but I will lose a scholarship if I do that. I honestly think my next course of action is talking to the professor and letting him know that I don’t understand him and to see if he has lecture notes in another form I can get. He is a very nice person and has a good sense of humor, I just cannot understand him. I also believe that oral communication skills are very important for a university professor and shame on the university for hiring someone with such a steep accent. I believe that I am not the only student, matter of fact I know, I am not the only student struggling to understand this professor. He might have already encountered this problem in the past and has a solution for it. If he doesn’t provide me the results I want, the dean might be the next step. 
 
Alicia
 
 
From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 11:01 PM
To: Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.
Subject: Re: [nabs] foreign professors
 
Zack,
Because most of the notes students take are from lecture format where students listen to the lecture and take down concise notes from that information they heard, I disagree that a notetaker will solve the problem.
A notetaker will have to hear the lecture too and if the professor cannot be understood, then the notetaker will not know what notes to take!
 
Yes the professor ought to provide his notes in electronic format if that is Alicia’s accomodation.
However, some professors write on the fly on the white or blackboard.
They do not generate them in computer format prior to class. Therefore, 
the professor cannot send electronic notes if he has none to send!
Haven’t you had professors who stand at a potium and turn to the white board and start writing? I’ve had professors use powerpoint. I had professors who used the LCD  screen and projected notes they were writing on the computer or wrote ahead of time in Word format.
Oh and you get professors who use no notes and simply talk and use other teaching tools like group discussion and video. My adolescent psychology professor did that. She taught a lot via class discussion and small group discussions.
She would put us in groups of three or four and tell us to discuss a topic and a student from that group had to report to the class on our oral discussions/reflections. She also showed videos.
 
We know Alicia’s class has notes. But we do not know what they are or how dense they are. Some professors write so few notes that
if you had them in accessible format, they are useless.  I’ve run across that just last semester with a grammar professor.
The notes professors write on the board supplement a lecture. And its my experience that professors will verbalize what they write anyway. Students in the back cannot see the board as clearly and rely on hearing the professor.
Oh and if professors do not verbalize what they write, politely ask them to do so. If you do not know how to spell
words like proper names, ask a classmate to whisper to you the spelling or ask the professor to spell as he/she writes. Some will do that. And remember sighted students need to look at their paper to write; they do not look at the board and paper at the same time!
Sighted students will appreciate that the professor spelled Pericles, Aphrodite,
Zues, and Zenophon.  FYI, these are Greek names.
 
 
While the school may legally need to provide notetakers, I wouldn’t trust a notetaker the school hired. Try and get the professor to verbalize his/her writing and take your own notes.
Do you want your grade to lay in the hands of another student who may not care about the subject?
When I attended that community college Ann Pimly did, the notetakers/scribes
were of mixed quality. Some were good students and paid attention. Others were not articulate readers so when I had class handouts having a scribe read them proved fruitless. Also, some scribes spent half the class on their laptop on the internet or text messaged!
 
Good quality notetakers are good for some classes especially math and science. But overall, I think we can take our own notes provided that we can understand the professor.
I had a foreign biology professor with an accent. But I got used to her accent. And for the 5 to 10 percent I might have missed, I asked her to repeat it during office hours.
She was also one of the accomodating ones who actually sent her notes before class. How nice to have a professor who sent notes ahead of time!
Foreign professors are a huge challege since we have to hear most of the information to learn it. That is true whether you are sighted or blind.
 
Ashley
 
 
From: Zack Olson 
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 11:00 PM
To: Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students. 
Subject: Re: [nabs] foreign professors
 
Hello,
 
yes, it is required under ADA/504 that either you get electronic notes from the professor or that your disability assistance office provides a scribe.  I’ve brushed up on my ADA a bit in the last year, as my university likes to provide pretty much the minimum as far as ADA regulations are concerned.  Now if only they’d brush up on the Chafy Amendment, things would be awesome.  
 
Anyway, definitely contact your disability support people and inquire about a note-taker.
 
Hope it works out for you. 
    
From: Ann Pimley 
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 9:54 PM
To: 'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.' 
Subject: Re: [nabs] foreign professors
 
Alicia, 
Does the instructor write on the board, or show powerpoints in class? You said that “if I can’t see his notes,” so doesn’t he give you electronic copies of his notes or powerpoints? Does the college provide you with a reader/scribe? I believe that under the ADA and Section 504, either the instructor has to provide you with lecture notes that he writes on the board and powerpoints, or the college needs to provide you with a scribe that will copy all the written information down. I always insisted on having a reader/scribe when I was attending a community college, even if I got the powerpoints electronically. At one point when the Office for Students with Disabilities said they did not have any more scribes I contacted the college lawyer and insisted on getting someone. Your Access Office is probably responsible to make sure that you get class information in an accessible format, so I would think you should contact them. They should either ask the professor to send you lecture notes and powerpoints, or provide you with a reader/scribe. If he is so hard to understand then probably it would be better to get a copy of his lecture notes, because a reader/scribe might not be able to understand him either. 
 
I will start at a 4 year university next spring and I don’t know yet what their policy is. If I think it does not follow the law, I am willing to fight for my rights there also. 
 
I have heard of other students having the same problem with a language barrier, and they dropped the class and took it somewhere else. I am not sure what is the college’s responsibility to make sure that students can understand the professor. I had one instructor that was slightly hard to understand, but she always sent me her lecture notes or powerpoints before class so I could look them over. 
 
Please do let us know about what happens with your situation, and good luck to you. 
Ann 
 
From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Starner, Alicia M.
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 6:57 PM
To: 'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.'
Subject: [nabs] foreign professors
 
Hello All,
 
I kind of know what I am going to do, but thought I would get some input from all of you. This semester is the first time I have come across a foreign professor with such a strong accent. ON the first day of classes there was only room for me in the back of the classroom, so I went in and took a seat. I had a very difficult time understanding the professor. I left the classroom thinking that I will go back and sit up front. On Friday that is just what I did, but I still walked out of class not understanding him. I did understand the video he was playing, but couldn’t understand a word he was saying. My first thought was drop the course and see if there was another instructor that taught the course, but I learned that he is the only instructor that teaches the course. I feel I am at a double disadvantage if I can’t see his notes and I can’t understand a word he is saying. I started to send an email to the access office, but decided it probably isn’t an issue for her. It is not really her fault or the universities fault I don’t understand a word this man says. I even recorded the lecture to see if I could understand him better at home, but the recording was even worse. Does anyone have any suggestions? I thought about dropping the course and seeing if he teaches the course online, but don’t know what to do. What would you all do if in the same situation.
 
Thanks,
 
Alicia Starner
 


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