[nabs] Access to books and notes, was foreign professors
Tara Prakash
taraprakash at gmail.com
Thu Aug 25 11:24:20 EDT 2011
If I remember correctly my school wants the student to talk to division of
blind services for note takers and such. The office only approves the note
takers to be allowed in the class based on the student's disability.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Pimley" <apomerai at verizon.net>
To: "'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.'"
<nabs at acb.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs] Access to books and notes, was foreign professors
> Alicia ,
> I seem to be repeating myself, but the colleges are legally responsible
> under the ADA and Section 504 to provide you all materials in an
> accessible format. That includes lectures. If the instructor does not give
> you all visual notes that are presented in the lecture, i.e. handouts,
> powerpoints, or written on the board, then the college needs to give you a
> reader/scribe to take down these written notes and give them to you in an
> accessible format, which is probably electronically. . The reader/scribes
> are really legally responsible for writing down the visual materials only,
> so students still are responsible for taking any notes that are orally
> presented, so no fear of falling asleep because of lack of work!
> I would suggest talking to your Counselor for students with disabilities
> about this. It is not the students responsibility to make the matter
> accessible, it is the colleges responsibility. The college wouldn't expect
> a student who is deaf to provide their own interpreter, so they shouldn't
> expect a student who is blind to make the visual materials accessible. We
> have come a long way in the country with civil rights, but we sure have a
> long way to go. It is hard to fight for our rights especially if we are
> the only one, but we each need to try and if enough of us do over time
> things should change.
> Ann
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of
> Dornetta
> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 1:49 PM
> To: Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.
> Subject: Re: [nabs] Access to books and notes, was foreign professors
>
> WOW! Alicia...I am speechless *mouth wide open* I was in the "audience"
> during the thread and I hear of the many compliants about readers and/or
> scribes and it make me very grateful that my college do offer both for
> test
> (which is usually an adult from testing services) and for the classroom.
> Netta
> "Just because you are blind, does not mean you lack vision"-Stevie Wonder
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Starner, Alicia" <astarner at charter.net>
> To: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'"
> <nabs at acb.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 8:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs] Access to books and notes, was foreign professors
>
>
> The opinion of my access office is that reader services are the
> responsibility of the student. The college does provide a reader/scribe
> for
> tests, but that is the only thing they will authorize.
>
>
>
> Alicia
>
>
>
>
>
> From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Ann
> Pimley
> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 10:59 PM
> To: 'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.'
> Subject: Re: [nabs] Access to books and notes, was foreign professors
>
>
>
> I dont understand how some colleges can not provide a reader/scribe for
> classes that have a lot of pictures and diagrams in the book or in
> powerpoints or other graphics that the instructor shows during class. If
> you get a text book from Learning Ally, at least the pictures and diagrams
> are described. For sure all state sponsored universities would need to do
> this, and I think even private colleges would have to. It is not an
> accessible format for a student who is blind if the college does not have
> the graphics described in some way either by Learning Ally or a
> reader/scribe, or both.
>
>
>
> Ann
>
>
>
> From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of
> Starner, Alicia M.
> Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 4:16 PM
> To: 'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.'
> Subject: Re: [nabs] Access to books and notes, was foreign professors
>
>
>
> Well said Ashley. I think reader services were very helpful to me in my
> math
> and science classes. Math is a very visual subject; therefore, it requires
> someone to actually explain the format of the problem. A computer just
> couldnt do that for me. In addition, it couldnt explain the diagrams or
> charts in my biology textbook that enhanced the concepts discussed in the
> text. A reader clarified that information for me and actually made it
> understandable without being able to see it. It would be a huge disservice
> if VR discontinued reader service for their clients, simply because they
> feel college access offices should provide that service. The bottom line
> is
> that not all colleges do. Matter of fact, my university does not provide a
> reader for nothing other than the exams. If I needed assistance with a
> math
> course, for example, I would be on my own to figure that out. I am a
> transfer student who started at the community college before transferring
> to
> the university this semester.
>
>
>
> Alicia
>
>
>
>
>
> From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of
> bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 2:59 PM
> To: Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.
> Subject: Re: [nabs] Access to books and notes, was foreign professors
>
>
>
> Laura,
>
> I do not think you should choose a college based on the disability service
> accomodations.
>
> Know what? Many colleges do not even have a disability service students
> office; such schools are either small schools or private schools.
> Therefore
> Ive known students who provide all their accomodations. Disability
> offices
> do not listen. I asked last semester for jaws to be upgraded and installed
> on multiple computers at campus. There is more than one blind student at
> school. They did not upgrade jaws.
>
>
>
> Nova does not scan books; instead all they can do is request the book from
> the publisher after you buy it. Then if that fails to work, they outsource
> the scanning. Yes if a disability office exists, they should provide
> accessible material. But some do not.
>
>
>
> As to readers, if I encountered that problem, Id get an advocacy
> organization involved like ACB if I was a member. Isnt that what the
> advocacy organizations are for? State vr needs to provide reader funds.
> Some
> subjects are just visual and you need a reader to read to you and make
> tactile diagrams.
>
> I do not agree with VR if they cut off reader funds. They are still
> needed
> despite the technology we have. I had a print grammar book. If I could not
> hire a reader, I would have dropped the course. The disability office does
> not scan books as I said; Id have to send my book away for two weeks to
> get
> it scanned if I wanted it.
>
> But you see, the book was not scannable anyway. It was loaded with marks
> like underlines to indicate grammar of subject vs predicate. It had
> abbreviations above the words like LV for linking verb, tv for transitive
> verb, etc. So a reader was quite helpful in reading this and telling me
> the
> abbreviations. Actually we struggled through it as there was so much
> he/she
> was
>
> wonder how to read it. Point is that a reader could explain it where as a
> computer could not.
>
>
>
> Ashley
>
>
>
> From: Laura Glowacki <mailto:orangebutterfly87 at gmail.com>
>
> Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 12:12 PM
>
> To: Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.
> <mailto:nabs at acb.org>
>
> Subject: Re: [nabs] Access to books and notes, was foreign professors
>
>
>
> Ashley,
>
> I've actually heard that some VR counselors won't provide money for
> readers
> anymore because bookshare, RFB, and DS offices are responsible for
> textbook
> conversion. That's they're reasoning; I'm not saying I agree certainly.
>
> I'm also not thrilled about blind students having to scan many of their
> own
> books. I can understand a couple maybe, particularly in circumstances
> where
> the DS office is too busy with the rest of their books or where you get a
> book from Amazon at the last minute or something. However, it should be a
> DS office's responsibility to scan and hopefully do some sort of cursory
> proofreading job on the student's textbooks. My best friend goes to a
> small
> private Bible college with hardly any DS services to speak of. I can
> almost
> garantee that she spent as much time scanning her books as she did going
> to
> class, if not more, and that was every single semester. While I think
> it's
> important blind students be able to scan their own materials, I
> desperately
> hope that it never becomes their prime responsibility to complete that
> task.
>
> Laura
>
> On 8/20/2011 11:18 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote:
>
> Zack,
>
> That is how I feel. The disability office is not with the current times
> and
> is not educated about access laws and of course not educated about
> blindness.
>
> I try to work directly with professors as well. To the disability staff,
> you are a student ID, a number on a long list of students.
>
> You can use bookshare and your own membership to Learning Ally/RFB to
> obtain
> your books, or scan them yourself.
>
> Or you can be old fashioned and hire a reader! Gasp, surprise,, hire a
> reader via your own funds or funds from VR. Yes its not as common with
> electronic texts and scanners now a days, but readers can skim and read
> what
> you want; it gets the job done.
>
> We agree that working with the disability support staff is frustrating.
> At
> nova, community college, they are way behind. They fail to provide enough
> assistive technology. Jaws is very old in the library and only one
> computer
> with jaws there. Nova also makes you take tests with readers who are
> inadaquate readers. Okay either get a good reader or let the student take
> it electronically with an updated piece of assistive technology.
>
> Students took tests with readers twenty years ago, and they still do today
> at nova.
>
>
>
> I like hiring readers; but the difference is I determine who is qualified;
> I
> test them to see if they can read clearly. The disability staff does not
> sample their reading quality before hiring them.
>
>
>
> Ashley
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Zack Olson <mailto:zack.olson.85 at gmail.com>
>
> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 11:43 PM
>
> To: Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.
> <mailto:nabs at acb.org>
>
> Subject: Re: [nabs] foreign professors
>
>
>
> Anne,
>
>
>
> Basically, the Chafey Amendment provides for accessible textbooks and
> other
> accessible print matter for the blind and visually impaired. The Chafey
> Amendment is why Bookshare is possible. The language of it is a bit
> confusing, but basically as far as university disability support is
> concerned, it means that any disability support office at any U.S.
> university (or junior/community college, etc.) doesnt need the go-ahead
> from the book publisher to conver the book into an accessible format as
> long
> as the student has already purchased the print version of the book, and as
> long as it will be exclusively used by students with documented visual or
> other print disabilities.
>
>
>
> Frankly, I like Bookshare much more than dealing with my disability
> support
> people. Theyre about ten years in the past as far as their policy and
> procedures go. It makes working with them very frustrating. Most of the
> blind/VI students here try to go out of their way not to have to deal with
> them by working directly with professors, departments, etc.
>
>
>
> From: Ann Pimley <mailto:apomerai at verizon.net>
>
> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 10:19 PM
>
> To: 'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.'
> <mailto:nabs at acb.org>
>
> Subject: Re: [nabs] foreign professors
>
>
>
> Zack,
>
>
>
> Please explain what is the Chafy Amendment?
>
> Ann
>
> From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Zack
> Olson
> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 11:01 PM
> To: Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.
> Subject: Re: [nabs] foreign professors
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
>
>
> yes, it is required under ADA/504 that either you get electronic notes
> from
> the professor or that your disability assistance office provides a scribe.
> Ive brushed up on my ADA a bit in the last year, as my university likes to
> provide pretty much the minimum as far as ADA regulations are concerned.
> Now if only theyd brush up on the Chafy Amendment, things would be
> awesome.
>
>
>
> Anyway, definitely contact your disability support people and inquire
> about
> a note-taker.
>
>
>
> Hope it works out for you.
>
>
>
> From: Ann Pimley <mailto:apomerai at verizon.net>
>
> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 9:54 PM
>
> To: 'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.'
> <mailto:nabs at acb.org>
>
> Subject: Re: [nabs] foreign professors
>
>
>
> Alicia,
>
> Does the instructor write on the board, or show powerpoints in class? You
> said that if I cant see his notes, so doesnt he give you electronic
> copies of his notes or powerpoints? Does the college provide you with a
> reader/scribe? I believe that under the ADA and Section 504, either the
> instructor has to provide you with lecture notes that he writes on the
> board
> and powerpoints, or the college needs to provide you with a scribe that
> will
> copy all the written information down. I always insisted on having a
> reader/scribe when I was attending a community college, even if I got the
> powerpoints electronically. At one point when the Office for Students with
> Disabilities said they did not have any more scribes I contacted the
> college
> lawyer and insisted on getting someone. Your Access Office is probably
> responsible to make sure that you get class information in an accessible
> format, so I would think you should contact them. They should either ask
> the
> professor to send you lecture notes and powerpoints, or provide you with a
> reader/scribe. If he is so hard to understand then probably it would be
> better to get a copy of his lecture notes, because a reader/scribe might
> not
> be able to understand him either.
>
>
>
> I will start at a 4 year university next spring and I dont know yet what
> their policy is. If I think it does not follow the law, I am willing to
> fight for my rights there also.
>
>
>
> I have heard of other students having the same problem with a language
> barrier, and they dropped the class and took it somewhere else. I am not
> sure what is the colleges responsibility to make sure that students can
> understand the professor. I had one instructor that was slightly hard to
> understand, but she always sent me her lecture notes or powerpoints before
> class so I could look them over.
>
>
>
> Please do let us know about what happens with your situation, and good
> luck
> to you.
>
> Ann
>
>
>
> From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of
> Starner, Alicia M.
> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 6:57 PM
> To: 'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.'
> Subject: [nabs] foreign professors
>
>
>
> Hello All,
>
>
>
> I kind of know what I am going to do, but thought I would get some input
> from all of you. This semester is the first time I have come across a
> foreign professor with such a strong accent. ON the first day of classes
> there was only room for me in the back of the classroom, so I went in and
> took a seat. I had a very difficult time understanding the professor. I
> left
> the classroom thinking that I will go back and sit up front. On Friday
> that
> is just what I did, but I still walked out of class not understanding him.
> I
> did understand the video he was playing, but couldnt understand a word he
> was saying. My first thought was drop the course and see if there was
> another instructor that taught the course, but I learned that he is the
> only
> instructor that teaches the course. I feel I am at a double disadvantage
> if
> I cant see his notes and I cant understand a word he is saying. I started
> to send an email to the access office, but decided it probably isnt an
> issue for her. It is not really her fault or the universities fault I dont
> understand a word this man says. I even recorded the lecture to see if I
> could understand him better at home, but the recording was even worse.
> Does
> anyone have any suggestions? I thought about dropping the course and
> seeing
> if he teaches the course online, but dont know what to do. What would you
> all do if in the same situation.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Alicia Starner
>
>
>
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