[nabs] nabs Digest, Vol 23, Issue 110
Chris Nusbaum
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Thu Aug 25 11:48:21 EDT 2011
hi everyone,
As to Laura's email about Outlook, I thought that
Office is already on Windows 7 computers. Isn't that how I have
Word 2014 and Excel? Do I need to buy an older copy? And, does
Live Mail work the same as Outlook, or is it different? I thought
that you could only use Windows Live Mail if you have a live.com
email account. Is this true? Another batch of questions! Lol!
Zach, I believe that the Citation Machine program is accessible,
if your college uses that. It allows you to write in MLA, TPA,
and Chicago styles. There may be more, but that's all I know.
Chris Nusbaum
"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
exists. If a blind person has the proper training and
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
nuisance." -- Kenneth Jernigan (President of the National
Federation of the Blind, 1968-1986.)
Visit the I C.A.N. Foundation online at:
www.icanfoundation.info for
information on our foundation and how it helps blind and visually
impaired children in MD say "I can!"
Sent from my BrailleNote
----- Original Message -----
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Date sent: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:48:36 -0400
Subject: nabs Digest, Vol 23, Issue 110
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: pros and cons of Outlook vs Gmail (Laura Glowacki)
2. Re: APA formatting with JAWS question (Zack Olson)
3. Re: Access to books and notes, was foreign professors
(Dornetta)
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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 11:26:20 -0500
From: Laura Glowacki <orangebutterfly87 at gmail.com
To: "Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind
Students."
<nabs at acb.org
Subject: Re: [nabs] pros and cons of Outlook vs Gmail
Message-ID: <4E55262C.2090508 at gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
If you don't have microsoft office or just don't want to use it,
you can
also use outlook express in windows xp or windows live mail in
vista or
Windows 7. I use Thunderbird myself and I love it. I'll second
Michael
M's analogy.
On 8/21/2011 2:54 PM, Michael Malver wrote:
In order to et the outlook produt, you need a copy of Microsoft
Office. I
love it. The difference in speed of e-mail management between
using gmail on
the web and gmail through outlook can't be adequately expressed.
Its' the
difference between walking to a blindness convention verses
taking a plane,
IMO.
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On
Behalf Of chris
nusbaum
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 8:45 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List; Gary Legates; nabs
Subject: [nabs] pros and cons of Outlook vs Gmail
Hi everyone,
As my use of Gmail continues, I'm quickly realizing the
limitations of
Basic HTML mode, which happens to be the only accessible view of
Gmail. The problem is that some of Gmail's features that would
make
life a lot easier for me, especially with the account I've
created for
the I C.A.N. Foundation, which I'm actively involved in, are
not
available in the basic HTML view. For example, sending a
message to
all contacts and checking the boxes for all email so I can clean
out
my Inbox. I never thought I would ask this, as Gmail's very
accessible
for the features I need in my personal email... but is
Microsoft
Outlook more accessible than Gmail's Web interface? What, in
your
opinion, are the pros and cons of Outlook vs Gmail's Web
interface?
Are all the features of Outlook accessible to JAWS, including
the
features of Gmail that only appear in standard view? I've heard
that
Outlook doesn't exist on Windows 7 computers, but my friend Gary
(who
I'm sending this email to) has a laptop running Windows 7, much
like
mine, and has Outlook 2007. How do I install that? Is Windows
Live
Mail on Windows 7 accessible? I'm sorry, I know I'm full of
questions,
but I'm just trying to learn all I can about Outlook's
accessibility
compared to Gmail's, so I can make an informed decision on
whether I
should just configure all my Gmail accounts for Outlook. Thanks
for
any help!
Chris
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 11:25:39 -0500
From: "Zack Olson" <zack.olson.85 at gmail.com
To: "Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind
Students."
<nabs at acb.org
Subject: Re: [nabs] APA formatting with JAWS question
Message-ID: <E7804385F37047109377DEF9AEFB3525 at SkyNet
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Alicia,
I had the same problem last semester. Unfortunately I did not
find a way to use Jaws to access the icons for the heading
format. I aked around and nobody else really had an answer
either.
Unfortunately, the best piece of advice I can give is to maybe
email a sighted friend, family member, etc. and see if they can
help you.
Sorry I couldn?t give any better answer.
From: Starner, Alicia M.
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 12:43 PM
To: 'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind
Students.'
Subject: [nabs] APA formatting with JAWS question
Hello All,
I am using JAWS 12 with Microsoft Office 2007 and have a question
about creating the running head in an APA paper. How do you put
a different header on the title page, while putting a different
one on the subsequent pages. For example, the header on the
title page of my paper is supposed to look like this:
Running head: Clinical and Written Ethical Responsibilities of
Social Workers
And the subsequent pages are to have headers that look like this:
Clinical and Written Ethical Responsibilities of Social Workers
How do you get these headers to read correctly? Another question
would be, how do you review what your header or footer says? When
I entered the text into the edit field for the header on my title
page and left that initial entry area, I cannot hear the header
when I am reviewing the page. How do I get JAWS to read that
information to me so I can edit my paper? Any help is
appreciated.
Alicia
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:48:59 -0400
From: "Dornetta" <dornetta at gmail.com
To: "Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind
Students."
<nabs at acb.org
Subject: Re: [nabs] Access to books and notes, was foreign
professors
Message-ID: <13EA5163E05E49DAAD12AC8626083D13 at DJVWRPK1
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8";
reply-type=original
WOW! Alicia...I am speechless *mouth wide open* I was in the
"audience"
during the thread and I hear of the many compliants about readers
and/or
scribes and it make me very grateful that my college do offer
both for test
(which is usually an adult from testing services) and for the
classroom.
Netta
"Just because you are blind, does not mean you lack
vision"-Stevie Wonder
----- Original Message -----
From: "Starner, Alicia" <astarner at charter.net
To: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind
Students.'"
<nabs at acb.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs] Access to books and notes, was foreign
professors
The opinion of my access office is that reader services are the
responsibility of the student. The college does provide a
reader/scribe for
tests, but that is the only thing they will authorize.
Alicia
From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On
Behalf Of Ann
Pimley
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 10:59 PM
To: 'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind
Students.'
Subject: Re: [nabs] Access to books and notes, was foreign
professors
I don?t understand how some colleges can not provide a
reader/scribe for
classes that have a lot of pictures and diagrams in the book or
in
powerpoints or other graphics that the instructor shows during
class. If
you get a text book from Learning Ally, at least the pictures and
diagrams
are described. For sure all state sponsored universities would
need to do
this, and I think even private colleges would have to. It is not
an
accessible format for a student who is blind if the college does
not have
the graphics described in some way either by Learning Ally or a
reader/scribe, or both.
Ann
From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On
Behalf Of
Starner, Alicia M.
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 4:16 PM
To: 'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind
Students.'
Subject: Re: [nabs] Access to books and notes, was foreign
professors
Well said Ashley. I think reader services were very helpful to
me in my math
and science classes. Math is a very visual subject; therefore,
it requires
someone to actually explain the format of the problem. A
computer just
couldn?t do that for me. In addition, it couldn?t explain the
diagrams or
charts in my biology textbook that enhanced the concepts
discussed in the
text. A reader clarified that information for me and actually
made it
understandable without being able to see it. It would be a huge
disservice
if VR discontinued reader service for their clients, simply
because they
feel college access offices should provide that service. The
bottom line is
that not all colleges do. Matter of fact, my university does not
provide a
reader for nothing other than the exams. If I needed assistance
with a math
course, for example, I would be on my own to figure that out. I
am a
transfer student who started at the community college before
transferring to
the university this semester.
Alicia
From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On
Behalf Of
bookwormahb at earthlink.net
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 2:59 PM
To: Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind
Students.
Subject: Re: [nabs] Access to books and notes, was foreign
professors
Laura,
I do not think you should choose a college based on the
disability service
accomodations.
Know what? Many colleges do not even have a disability service
student?s
office; such schools are either small schools or private schools.
Therefore
I?ve known students who provide all their accomodations.
Disability offices
do not listen. I asked last semester for jaws to be upgraded and
installed
on multiple computers at campus. There is more than one blind
student at
school. They did not upgrade jaws.
Nova does not scan books; instead all they can do is request the
book from
the publisher after you buy it. Then if that fails to work, they
outsource
the scanning. Yes if a disability office exists, they should
provide
accessible material. But some do not.
As to readers, if I encountered that problem, I?d get an advocacy
organization involved like ACB if I was a member. Isn?t that
what the
advocacy organizations are for? State vr needs to provide reader
funds. Some
subjects are just visual and you need a reader to read to you and
make
tactile diagrams.
I do not agree with VR if they cut off reader funds. They are
still needed
despite the technology we have. I had a print grammar book. If
I could not
hire a reader, I would have dropped the course. The disability
office does
not scan books as I said; I?d have to send my book away for two
weeks to get
it scanned if I wanted it.
But you see, the book was not scannable anyway. It was loaded
with marks
like underlines to indicate grammar of subject vs predicate. It
had
abbreviations above the words like LV for linking verb, tv for
transitive
verb, etc. So a reader was quite helpful in reading this and
telling me the
abbreviations. Actually we struggled through it as there was so
much he/she
was
wonder how to read it. Point is that a reader could explain it
where as a
computer could not.
Ashley
From: Laura Glowacki <mailto:orangebutterfly87 at gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 12:12 PM
To: Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.
<mailto:nabs at acb.org
Subject: Re: [nabs] Access to books and notes, was foreign
professors
Ashley,
I've actually heard that some VR counselors won't provide money
for readers
anymore because bookshare, RFB, and DS offices are responsible
for textbook
conversion. That's they're reasoning; I'm not saying I agree
certainly.
I'm also not thrilled about blind students having to scan many of
their own
books. I can understand a couple maybe, particularly in
circumstances where
the DS office is too busy with the rest of their books or where
you get a
book from Amazon at the last minute or something. However, it
should be a
DS office's responsibility to scan and hopefully do some sort of
cursory
proofreading job on the student's textbooks. My best friend goes
to a small
private Bible college with hardly any DS services to speak of. I
can almost
garantee that she spent as much time scanning her books as she
did going to
class, if not more, and that was every single semester. While I
think it's
important blind students be able to scan their own materials, I
desperately
hope that it never becomes their prime responsibility to complete
that task.
Laura
On 8/20/2011 11:18 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote:
Zack,
That is how I feel. The disability office is not with the
current times and
is not educated about access laws and of course not educated
about
blindness.
I try to work directly with professors as well. To the
disability staff,
you are a student ID, a number on a long list of students.
You can use bookshare and your own membership to Learning
Ally/RFB to obtain
your books, or scan them yourself.
Or you can be old fashioned and hire a reader! Gasp, surprise,,
hire a
reader via your own funds or funds from VR. Yes its not as
common with
electronic texts and scanners now a days, but readers can skim
and read what
you want; it gets the job done.
We agree that working with the disability support staff is
frustrating. At
nova, community college, they are way behind. They fail to
provide enough
assistive technology. Jaws is very old in the library and only
one computer
with jaws there. Nova also makes you take tests with readers who
are
inadaquate readers. Okay either get a good reader or let the
student take
it electronically with an updated piece of assistive technology.
Students took tests with readers twenty years ago, and they still
do today
at nova.
I like hiring readers; but the difference is I determine who is
qualified; I
test them to see if they can read clearly. The disability staff
does not
sample their reading quality before hiring them.
Ashley
From: Zack Olson <mailto:zack.olson.85 at gmail.com
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 11:43 PM
To: Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.
<mailto:nabs at acb.org
Subject: Re: [nabs] foreign professors
Anne,
Basically, the Chafey Amendment provides for accessible textbooks
and other
accessible print matter for the blind and visually impaired. The
Chafey
Amendment is why Bookshare is possible. The language of it is a
bit
confusing, but basically as far as university disability support
is
concerned, it means that any disability support office at any
U.S.
university (or junior/community college, etc.) doesn?t need the
go-ahead
from the book publisher to conver the book into an accessible
format as long
as the student has already purchased the print version of the
book, and as
long as it will be exclusively used by students with documented
visual or
other print disabilities.
Frankly, I like Bookshare much more than dealing with my
disability support
people. They?re about ten years in the past as far as their
policy and
procedures go. It makes working with them very frustrating.
Most of the
blind/VI students here try to go out of their way not to have to
deal with
them by working directly with professors, departments, etc.
From: Ann Pimley <mailto:apomerai at verizon.net
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 10:19 PM
To: 'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind
Students.'
<mailto:nabs at acb.org
Subject: Re: [nabs] foreign professors
Zack,
Please explain what is ?the Chafy Amendment??
Ann
From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On
Behalf Of Zack
Olson
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 11:01 PM
To: Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind
Students.
Subject: Re: [nabs] foreign professors
Hello,
yes, it is required under ADA/504 that either you get electronic
notes from
the professor or that your disability assistance office provides
a scribe.
I?ve brushed up on my ADA a bit in the last year, as my
university likes to
provide pretty much the minimum as far as ADA regulations are
concerned.
Now if only they?d brush up on the Chafy Amendment, things would
be awesome.
Anyway, definitely contact your disability support people and
inquire about
a note-taker.
Hope it works out for you.
From: Ann Pimley <mailto:apomerai at verizon.net
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 9:54 PM
To: 'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind
Students.'
<mailto:nabs at acb.org
Subject: Re: [nabs] foreign professors
Alicia,
Does the instructor write on the board, or show powerpoints in
class? You
said that ?if I can?t see his notes,? so doesn?t he give you
electronic
copies of his notes or powerpoints? Does the college provide you
with a
reader/scribe? I believe that under the ADA and Section 504,
either the
instructor has to provide you with lecture notes that he writes
on the board
and powerpoints, or the college needs to provide you with a
scribe that will
copy all the written information down. I always insisted on
having a
reader/scribe when I was attending a community college, even if I
got the
powerpoints electronically. At one point when the Office for
Students with
Disabilities said they did not have any more scribes I contacted
the college
lawyer and insisted on getting someone. Your Access Office is
probably
responsible to make sure that you get class information in an
accessible
format, so I would think you should contact them. They should
either ask the
professor to send you lecture notes and powerpoints, or provide
you with a
reader/scribe. If he is so hard to understand then probably it
would be
better to get a copy of his lecture notes, because a
reader/scribe might not
be able to understand him either.
I will start at a 4 year university next spring and I don?t know
yet what
their policy is. If I think it does not follow the law, I am
willing to
fight for my rights there also.
I have heard of other students having the same problem with a
language
barrier, and they dropped the class and took it somewhere else.
I am not
sure what is the college?s responsibility to make sure that
students can
understand the professor. I had one instructor that was slightly
hard to
understand, but she always sent me her lecture notes or
powerpoints before
class so I could look them over.
Please do let us know about what happens with your situation, and
good luck
to you.
Ann
From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On
Behalf Of
Starner, Alicia M.
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 6:57 PM
To: 'Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind
Students.'
Subject: [nabs] foreign professors
Hello All,
I kind of know what I am going to do, but thought I would get
some input
from all of you. This semester is the first time I have come
across a
foreign professor with such a strong accent. ON the first day of
classes
there was only room for me in the back of the classroom, so I
went in and
took a seat. I had a very difficult time understanding the
professor. I left
the classroom thinking that I will go back and sit up front. On
Friday that
is just what I did, but I still walked out of class not
understanding him. I
did understand the video he was playing, but couldn?t understand
a word he
was saying. My first thought was drop the course and see if
there was
another instructor that taught the course, but I learned that he
is the only
instructor that teaches the course. I feel I am at a double
disadvantage if
I can?t see his notes and I can?t understand a word he is saying.
I started
to send an email to the access office, but decided it probably
isn?t an
issue for her. It is not really her fault or the universities
fault I don?t
understand a word this man says. I even recorded the lecture to
see if I
could understand him better at home, but the recording was even
worse. Does
anyone have any suggestions? I thought about dropping the course
and seeing
if he teaches the course online, but don?t know what to do. What
would you
all do if in the same situation.
Thanks,
Alicia Starner
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