[nabs] P.E. experiences

[Ashley Bramlett]

Well, you cannot generalize from schools. SC school for the blind may do 
that. But I've heard other positive things from students.
I know at the virginia school for the blind they are taught O&M everyday and 
daily living most days of the week and they have clubs for them. They are 
definitely taught computer skills. VSDB has a few computer labs.
But now due to the budget funds are being cut for technology. I was 
discussing pros and cons of PE and I know that being with other blind kids 
is very beneficial. They have teachers that explain things to the students 
and no visual references are made.


They can feel equal in PE and clubs there. VSDB even had a school newspaper 
that the kids ran.
I know two kids that moved from public school to VSDB and did not regret it. 
They had needs that the school was not addressing.
If inclusion worked, you would not have blind kids being nonparticipants in 
PE classes. You wouldn't have them sitting there while partners did lab 
experiements and hardly spoke to you. Oh, yes I felt ignored in the science 
lab.
If inclusion worked, you would not have students graduating with deficits in 
fitness, science, math, or any subject.

Parts of inclusion are good like having to sit through a class and take 
notes. This helps prepare you for college and employment. You have a 
notetaking device, take notes, and study them at home and sighted students 
take notes with pencil/paper.

My parents were great advocates for academics but they left PE to the 
educators and just wanted me to get through it. They didn't know what I 
could do in PE either.
Now there are more opportunities for blind kids to develop fitness. There 
are camp abilities to teach these skills. I wish  I could have attended camp 
abilities! They ought to make a basic fitness and intro to sports  camp for 
adults!
And as  a college student I'll add that I attempted to take ballroom 
dancing. The teacher was a jerk. Herefused to accommodate me and said mean 
things like I'd slow his class down and he did not see how I could dance. I 
dropped the class. I could have also filed a discrimination complaint. This 
happenened at George Mason before I went to MU.

I'm glad a few of you had positive PE experiences. PE is very important due 
to the rising obesity problem.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Dornetta
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 7:39 PM
To: Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.
Subject: Re: [nabs] P.E. experiences

Hello!
Here are my thoughts on the residential setting vs traditional.  I am
currently taking a algebra class with another blind student (the first blind
student I have encountered at my college) and she comes from a residential
setting. In my honest opinion, (and this is only my opinion so sorry if I
offend anyone), her skills are deplorable! While she is somewhat OK in the
math department (meaning she can do the math with efficiency) she has poor
social and computer skills. She has the mind set that someone has to do
EVERYTHING for her and she cannot do it by herself. I found myself asking
her in very blunt tones (just because I have a very low tollerance for ish),
what was her training like? She said it was great because they did
everything for them. I found this sad mainly because she does not know how
to advocate for herself. She does not know how to do nothing for herself.
She sits beside me in class and asks me constantly to do this or that for
her; which I DO NOT! I want to say, she is not the first person that I have
encountered from this particular school that cannot "do for him or herself"
I cannot speak on other schools with residential settings but only for the
one that is in my state of SC and I just do not care for the residential
setting for the educational needs of the blind; possibly with multiple
disabilities. I find that they handicap the person more. The bully put
aside, I think that blind/visually impaired persons should be educated in
the public school setting with the necessary help from TVIs and resource
teachers. Think about, if one of us have to start training for a job, we are
trained with other blind/visually impaired "employees-to-be" instead, we are
trained with the rest of the sighted training class. In the public school
setting, the b/vi person can start thinking outside the box and also start
learning how to live in a world that was not made for them. Yes, being blind
is challenging but if the person is constantly given everything then how
would they learn to ask. Now don't get me wrong, our math instructor abides
by the 504 and makes accomodations but simple tasks like logging on to the
class website and opening up the PDF file or worksheet is too difficult for
the girl; not to mention that she gets very loud when the teacher proceeds
before she can figure out how to open the file (and this after she allows
us-her and I about 6-7 minutes to get the file.) When I ask the question,
why don't you open the file before you come to class and save it on your
desktop or in "my documents", she replies, why don't she just hands me a
Braille copy? (may she is right, but allow me to say-she never told our
counselor that she needs a Braille cope-GEESH!) Like I said, she is so used
to being handed all her materials in the correct format that she does not
fully understands what she needs to make her education work for her. She
does not even know how to turn on her lap top or how to correctly or should
I say start JAWS or the navigation keys. Her response to my question of what
did you do at school is that they told them which keys to push, etc... (So I
am like WTF! *mouth wide open) Often, may of the classmates giggle or LOL
because my bluntness and I have to remind myself that this child is not one
of my children and try to keep the annoyance out of my voice.
Trust me, I make all attempts to assist or help as much as possible without
missing so much of the lecture but it is diddicult most of the times. Often,
I have to stop class to explain techy to her which is not fair to the other
students but the teacher is so patient and allows a few minutes. LOL
Sorry for the long response but those are my thoughts on the matter and like
I said above: I apologize if anything in this message offended anyone.
Netta
"Just because you are blind, does not mean you lack vision"-Stevie Wonder
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Olivia Norman" <olivianorman at gmail.com>
To: "Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students."
<nabs at acb.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs] P.E. experiences


Hi Everyone,
I think I'm another one, with proof that inclusion does work well.  I don't
know if I was just lucky, or what, but I never had any problems with social
skills, finding friends, etc.  The only exception to this was my freshman
year of high school, when my vision teacher sent me to my county's high
school which had a vision resource room and suggested that I spend two
periods a day in there that I absolutely didn't need.  This was undoubtedly
the most miserable year of both my parents, and my, lives.  We were
exhausted, I was unhappy, because I'd been taken away from my home district,
friends, and instead of doing electives with my peers I was forced to take
resource periods with a vision teacher that I got no value from and didn't
need at all.  I have always been in honors classes, and was still in honors
classes that year, but had to have vision resource twice a day which made me
feel stupid, different, and sad.  I noticed that my peers in the vision
resource room were functioning at a much lower level academically than I
was, and that they'd been in  vision resource and lower level classes all
their school careers.  I know that I was extremely fortunate to be fully
included in my local schools until high school, because I was functioning on
the same level as my sighted peers educationally, and I am not sure that
this was the case with students in vision resource in my county.  During
elementary and middle school, I met with a vision teacher twice a week after
school, and once during reading, so that I'd miss as little as possible.  I
had O and M once a week after school, and saxophone lessons once a week with
a friend.  I didn't love having to have vision and O and M, but knew that I
needed to have the services in order to succeed, so went along and learned
what I could from them.
After that disastrous year of high school, my parents moved me to a small
private school, where I made friends, did well academically, and no longer
got vision services.  My Dad contracted with a wonderful O and M instructor
who I spent many hours with after school each week, and who taught me more
than I'd ever learned in the school system.  She and I did public transit,
developed my cane skills so that I felt comfortable doing things I'd never
tried before, and she ultimately convinced me to get a guide dog my senior
year once she felt I was ready for it.  I started getting home from school
using busses and subways, which was a really liberating experience which
stood me in great stead for college and beyond.
As far as PE experiences, my elementary PE teacher was fabulous, and adapted
games for me.  He put a beeper on the basket in basketball, showed me how to
use a balance beam, and had classmates help me with other games.  I was
always picked for teams, never experienced that issue, and I just did my
best and learned what I could.
Middle school was OK, but not great.  I warmed up like everyone else, with a
classmates help, and after that, honestly, many of the girls in my class who
weren't athletic would just jog around the field and socialize.  I was part
of this group of girls, they were my friends, and we'd watch the athletic
kids playing football, basketball, etc.  The only thing we took part in was
wrestling, and we mostly ended up in a laughing heap during that, anyways.
One important thing to note, that I haven't seen in this thread so far, kids
with disabilities aren't the only ones excluded from PE. It was my
experience that so much of PE was centered around traditional team sports,
and those kids, disabled or not, who weren't good at sports found themselves
excluded.  My group of friends just weren't athletic, they weren't disabled
either, but sort of jogging and being a bunch of gossiping, giggling girls,
was  deemed completely fine by our PE teacher because we just didn't have
the skill or ability to play team sports.  I guess what I'm saying is that
the problem extends beyond kids with disabilities, and that it would be
great to see some changes to the PE system as a whole, with less focus on
team sports and more focus on other areas of PE, so that everyone, not just
kids who are considered good at team sports can take part in PE classes.
Remember that group of giggling seventh grade girls I talked about earlier?
Well, fourteen years later, many of us are still friends. I was recently on
a work trip to Silicon Valley, and had the chance to catch up with one of
them who now lives in San Francisco.  Perhaps nothing's changed, but we had
a good laugh over our middle school PE classes, where all we did was talk
about hot boys, they gave me great descriptions, while I know we should have
a better PE experience, I will always value my friendship with those girls,
and in some way, I guess that PE class was worth something.
In high school, I had no PE for the first year, because I spent all that
time in vision resource.  When I changed schools, we didn't have a PE
requirement, so I had no PE one year, and did yoga for the next two, which
worked well, because it was a small class, and a classmate showed me the
moves.
I recognize that I was very fortunate because my family had the resources to
provide the best possible educational experience for me, but I really do
believe that full inclusion works, and, in most cases, is a better solution
than schools for the blind in residential settings.
In college, I had no major social issues.  I was fortunate to have a good
group of friends, and certainly did my share of normal college  stuff,
partying, etc. :)
When health issues forced me to transfer schools my junior year, I had
different experience, because I lived at home and commuted, so found it
harder to make friends in the huge  state school environment I was suddenly
thrown into.  I really don't think that was due to my blindness, though, it
was other health stuff, and mostly the fact that I was a commuter and not
into the fraternity seen.  Sighted people at my school who were commuter
students and transfers were in the same boat, and those individuals
eventually became my friends.
Don't take this the wrong way, but sometimes, I feel that there's a tendency
to blain blindness for things like social issues, when there might be more
at play than simply being blind.  Sure, blindness contributes, but sometimes
there are multiple factors at play, and it's important to remember that.
Sorry for the book, Just wanted to chime in and share my thoughts and
experiences!
Olivia

"Have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already
know what you truly want to become.", Steve Jobs

On Oct 2, 2011, at 4:12 AM, Caitlin Lynch - ACBS Second VP wrote:

>  Zack, that was an amazing description of a cartwheel! :)
>    I think I can help a bit here with capture the flag. Picture a field or 
> gym floor divided in half, with a line of cones or something marking the 
> dividing line. there are two teams, one per side. Each team has a flag, 
> which they store at some chosen point on their half of the court. The flag 
> is visible to the other team and is normally stored as far away from the 
> dividing line as possible. There is a guard to watch over the flag. The 
> point of the game is that members of opposing teams run across the 
> dividing line to try to grab the other team's flag. They can be chased 
> down by members of the opposing team and sent to 'jail', which complicates 
> the game some. The only way they can be released is if someone from their 
> team comes over the line to tag them out. If someone from one team makes 
> it over to their own side of the court with the other team's flag, they 
> win the game. I remember loving it as a kid.
>    I played it in blind camp. The dividing line was always made with very 
> thick tape,  so that you could feel it under your shoes as you ran. The 
> flags were beeper balls so you could target the sound as you tried to 
> obtain them. Its quite an easy game to play and quite an easy game to 
> adapt.
>     In terms of p.e., I took adapted p.e.e until the eleventh grade. It 
> was always in my iep, but I was never pleased with it. I went to public 
> school and wanted to take regular gym like everyone else. In eleventh 
> grade, I swtched over. We had gym electibes in my school, since it was so 
> big, like net sports, team sports, weight traianing, etc. I took a 
> movement explortation class in 11th grade, which was all about dance, 
> yoga, karate, etc. the teacher was great and would explain things like 
> moves to me in great verbal detail kif I didn't understand them. I was 
> successful though in that class because i had a friend who I'd known since 
> I was seven or so who would be my partner and help mold my body physically 
> if need be. In 12th grade, I took a project adventure course that 
> emphasized team building skills. it involved a lot of ropes courses, rock 
> climbing, and really different activities. I made a good group of friends 
> in the course, but the teacher was really unhelpful and the class was 
> really big, which was overwhelming. I had hoped to get a lot of the 
> course, but it didn't work out well at all for me.
>    In terms of inclusion, I think I'm proff that it does work. I was 
> mainstreamed all along. When I was in elementary school, I went to a 
> resource room in 1st grade, where I could focus my braille skills. This 
> was a service mostly for kids with learning disabilities, which I didn't 
> have, and it didn't really work for me. Most of my tvi services were right 
> in the classroom, where I could learn the skills I needed right along with 
> my classmates, with my tvi serving as almost a co teacher. When there 
> weren't lessons she could seamlessly integrate those skills in to, I got 
> pulled out. But I never felt like I missed anything of importance. When I 
> was in middle and high school, I would take a study hall period. Normally, 
> we had room for one elective in middle school, so I used my tvi time in 
> lieu of an every other day elective. The same went for high school, and 
> then I had more opportunities for electives, so it isn't like I missed out 
> on that experience either. In high school, I normally took a full 9 period 
> schedule. In high school in my district lunch was something you could opt 
> out of, and I did, to get as much out of my day as I could and I'd just 
> eat in a sympathetic teacher's class or with my tvi, who is still to this 
> day one of my most favorite people alive.
>    I wish I had more to say on the residential vs. public school debate. 
> It's always been a subject that fascinates me. I know that here, in New 
> York, our services for the blind are excellent. I live in Long Island, the 
> quintessential suburbs, and we're quite well known for tvi and o and m 
> services. There is a school for the blind near Manhattan, where the 
> services can be a bit lack  luster at times. There is also a school near 
> Buffalo, fairly close to the order with Canada. I was always told that 
> schools for the blind, at least her in New York, are mostly for multiply 
> disabled students. It was never an option for me to attend one, because I 
> got great services and actually had a solid group of friends in my home 
> district. I'd love to see Perkins or ISVI or WCBVI where I have heard 
> really positive things about programing. I haven't heard so much about our 
> residential schools here.
> Caitlin
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 2, 2011, at 1:58 AM, "Zack Olson [ACB Student Advocate 
> Editor]"<editor.acbstudents at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ashley,
>>
>> Not sure if my description will do any good, but a cartwheel is sort of 
>> like this:
>>
>> From a running start a person turns their body sideways.  If the last 
>> forward step was on the right foot, they would sort of throw their left 
>> foot outward and both arms up and outward diagonally. They would pivot 
>> their body sideways and downward, transferring their weight from their 
>> right leg to their right hand—which could then be placed flat on the 
>> ground. The transference of weight then continues ina circular motion, 
>> from the right nad to the left hand, then to the left foot, and than back 
>> to both feet.
>>
>> From: Ashley Bramlett
>> Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 11:58 PM
>> To: Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.
>> Subject: Re: [nabs] P.E. experiences
>>
>> Hey Zach,
>> Wow, that was nearly a novel there. I, too, was ignored in school and
>> was during college as well. But I found students were at least pleasant 
>> and nice in college; I mean they’d say hi at least. And I was in a few 
>> clubs and felt more included than I did during public school activities. 
>> I guess the students I hung out with were more mature; after all they 
>> were in campus ministry with me; it was a catholic school.
>> Good luck with designing a program of study. I made my own degree too: a 
>> BA in liberal studies; was going to study psychology  but was afraid of 
>> doing statistics and really did not want to risk failing it.
>>
>> I see what you mean about residential schools. The students who I know 
>> opted to go to them had other challenges. They got some academics but a 
>> lower standard and the extra curricular activities.
>> They got to have sports clubs and feel included. I’ve known students in 
>> track, wrestling, and cheerleading as well.
>> I guess there’s not a perfect answer.
>>
>> As to the sports in PE, they did play capture the flag in elementary and 
>> middle school. I recall it was on a field, maybe the football field.
>> Now that I have a little more knowledge of the games, I believe they 
>> could be adapted. For instance, for kickball, you’d just need a beeping 
>> ball like they use in beep baseball and someone to talk at the base so 
>> you know where to run. Sounds like a fun game.
>>
>> I' wish I could see a cartwheel. Someday, I’ll get someone to show me in 
>> slow motion using a doll. I cannot exactly feel a person flying through 
>> the air doing one. The only gymnastics  move I got okay was a forward 
>> roll.
>>
>> Anyway, we’ll see if others chime in later.
>>
>>
>> From: Zack Olson
>> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 12:38 AM
>> To: Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.
>> Subject: Re: [nabs] P.E. experiences
>>
>> Ashley,
>>
>> You make a lot of very good points, and I agree with a lot of them.
>>
>> As far as inclusion goes, I was mostly an inclusion student, and like you 
>> I rarely ever felt included. In fact, for the years of my educational 
>> career up until high school, I was bullied pretty mercilessly. The 
>> bullying was much less in high school, especially because I was never 
>> afraid to hit back. It may not have been the smartest way to handle the 
>> situations, but it kept people off my back more than the diplomatic 
>> approach ever did. In high school, the other students largely ignored me, 
>> the same way they do here at college, though these days it doesn’t really 
>> bother me. There’s a lot of people here I wouldn’t want to hang out with 
>> anyway. <wlEmoticon-smilewithtongueout[1].png>
>>
>> I also spent two years at one of the residential schools that were *far* 
>> worse than my time in public schools. The problem with residential 
>> schools is that if you throw together a bunch of kids that have been 
>> neglected and bullied by their peers for so many years and give them some 
>> semblence of control by putting them in a residential school where 
>> everyone is “the same”, they will sometimes misuse that control, and 
>> bully each other as mercilessly as any sighted kid ever did. Hell, 
>> sometimes the staff is so emotionally immature that they get involved as 
>> well. It’s a self-contained community, a microcosm of the larger 
>> educational system and the larger society, but it has the potential to be 
>> much more damaging. After all, if the people who are “just like you” don’t 
>> accept you, who will? There’s a lot of sighted vs. blind talk that goes 
>> around, but blind people can be just as damaging to one another as 
>> sighted people can.
>>
>> In  my opinion, residential schools are great for students with multiple 
>> disabilities, because employees at the residential schools are better 
>> trained to attend to their specific needs, but residential schools are 
>> not necessarily good for students who are just blind or visually 
>> impaired. There are very few of the students that graduated with me or in 
>> the years directly before or after me that have gone on to find gainful 
>> employment or attend college. I can count them on my two hands and still 
>> have fingers left over.  The residential schools set a lower standard for 
>> students, and that is as unacceptable as the public schools setting a 
>> lower standard for them. Also, their poor socialization and lack of 
>> knowledge about things that they would have been exposed to in public 
>> schools sets them further apart from “normal” people. Sometimes, the 
>> residential schools just aren’t any better suited to teach students with 
>> blindness or visual impairment than the public schools.
>>
>> I try to take a professional and unbiased stance on the concept of 
>> inclusion. It may not have worked entirely for me, but I have seen it 
>> work for some students, and those students are the ones that will end up 
>> making a great deal of difference in the fight for acceptance and 
>> equality. It is true that you cannot make nondisabled students be friends 
>> with disabled students, but some of them will end up liking the disabled 
>> students, not all of them, but some of them. Some kids are just jerks, 
>> and they don’t grow out of it as adults. Others do grow out of their 
>> egocentrism and when they do, it will make a difference that they have 
>> had experience in being around people with disabilities.
>>
>> Onto your other questions.
>>
>> I’m sort of in between majors right now. I have been a psych major, 
>> journalism major (for one semester), an education major (studying to be a 
>> TVI), and thought about being an English major. Right now, I am in the 
>> process of designing a contract program that would allow me to major in 
>> assistive technology for the blind and visually impaired. Basically, I 
>> have to select a list of classes along with independent studies or 
>> internships, plus a capstone experience (like a thesis project or 
>> something of that nature) that would fall into the area of study that I 
>> am interested in. I also have to write a proposal justifying my choices 
>> and send the whole thing through two different advisory committees before 
>> it’s official.
>>
>> I wanted to work possibly as a rehab teacher specializing in assistive 
>> tech, but would have had to get my undergrad in education first, as the 
>> RT program here is just at the masters level. I didn’t want to deal with 
>> all the student teaching, classes I would never use, and ridiculous 
>> Illinois state certification standards—that don’t make better teachers 
>> anyway—and then have to come back for a masters degree.  This way I can 
>> skip all of that garbage and avoid taking the GRE as well. Plus the field 
>> of assistive tech is really more about experience and skill, and I have 
>> both of those already. I am hoping to work in training people to use 
>> assistive tech, as a consultant on assistive tech/web accessibility, or 
>> possibly in R&D with one of the assistive tech companies, though my 
>> ultimate goal is to be a writer 
>> (novelist/journalist/nonfictionist/political commentator).
>>
>> I graduated in 2004—though I would have graduated in 2003 if I had 
>> decided not to stay for a fifth year of mostly ADL-related classes at the 
>> residential school.  So I also avoided the ridiculousness of standardized 
>> testing. Quite happy about that actually.
>>
>> As far as the statement about math and reading deficiencies in students 
>> with visual impairments, I don’t have an exact article or source to cite. 
>> In the field of education for the visually impaired, it is a generally 
>> accepted fact. That fact is based upon imperical information, but as I 
>> said, I am not positive of the sources. The head of the Visual 
>> Disabilities program here at NIU owns his own research firm, and I could 
>> ask him for specific citations if you’d like.
>>
>> The reason that so many children with blindness and visual impairment 
>> develop deficiencies in math and reading is that they do not receive 
>> adequate early intervention or pre-school services from qualified 
>> professionals. It is also because—not necessarily through any fault of 
>> their own—many parents of children with visual impairment or blindness do 
>> not know how to adapt early childhood activities for their children and 
>> are not receiving the right instruction on how to do so from qualified 
>> professionals.  Any person with a visual impairment or blindness that is 
>> not good in math or reading need not be too hard on themselves.  Both 
>> reading and math are highly visual concepts, and the spatial concepts 
>> involved in math need to be adapted in very specific ways in order to be 
>> properly conveyed to a person with blindness or visual impairment.
>>
>> I myself am very lucky. I have always been very intelligent. I was 
>> usually one of the two or three smartest students in my classes 
>> throughout most of my educational career, at least until I got to the 
>> university level. I have always been pretty good at math, but find that 
>> since my vision has started to decline (I have retinitis pigmentosa) math 
>> is more difficult. I end up teaching most of the concepts to myself with 
>> the use of a CCtv and notes from class. In all the math classes I’ve 
>> taken in college, I’ve felt that going to class has been a waste of time 
>> about ninety percent of the time, since I end up just sitting and 
>> listening—or falling asleep—and then teaching the concepts to myself 
>> using the textbook later.
>>
>> About the observations I did during the course of my time as an education 
>> major: I do still have a sufficient amount of sight that I can gather 
>> some information visually.  Any other information I felt I needed to 
>> know, I would ask about directly.  The teachers I observed were very 
>> willing to spend a bit of extra time with me working out and discussing 
>> different aspects of whatever I had observed on a particular day. I also 
>> think I had one up on some of the other students doing observations 
>> becauseunlike them, I am a visually impaired student, and know the ropes.
>>
>> Now onto sports and adaptations.
>>
>> I can’t really tell you how to adapt racket ball, since that’s one I’ve 
>> never really played. Although, from my general concept of the game, I’m 
>> not sure that it would be easily adaptable for persons with visual 
>> impairment or blindness. I know it involves rackets ad bouncing a ball 
>> off the walls of a small room, but not much more than that.
>>
>> Dodgeball could be fairly easily adapted by putting a bell or a beeper in 
>> the balls.  Basically in dodge ball, a court is divided into two 
>> sections, one team on each side, There are a certain number of 
>> balls—usually four to six I believe—that are split evenly between teams 
>> at the beginning of the first round. Basically when the whistle is blown, 
>> the teams just throw the balls at one another. If you get hit, you are 
>> out. It’s very willy nilly actually. I used to stand behind other people 
>> and wait until they got hit, and then retrieve the ball from them as they 
>> left the court. LOL; If the ball had a bell or beeper in it—more likely a 
>> bell than a beeper—than a person with blindness or visual impairment 
>> would have a better chance of dodging it.
>>
>> Can’t help you with capture the flag. We never played that one in gym.
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