[nabs] sc school for the blind

[Dornetta]

Zack you are so right. But when our math classmates look upon with amazement 
and wonder in their eyes and then look over at said named person, I just 
look and catch their eyes and laugh because the look on their faces is 
priceless...LOL It is sort of a "hidden" joke and only I understand. IDK, I 
know, I should be smiling at someone else misfortune but to be there is the 
point that I am making. It is because she walks around with entitlement and 
the "I know what I am doing" attitude that is so humorous is all. If what I 
said offend anyone, please excuse me. Again, a laugh/smile that only I 
understand.
Netta
"Just because you are blind, does not mean you lack vision"-Stevie Wonder
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Zack Olson" <zack.olson.85 at gmail.com>
To: "Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students." 
<nabs at acb.org>
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs] sc school for the blind


> Netta,
>
> I have to say, I'm not much for peoples' amazement anymore than I am their 
> pity. Somebody who is amazed that a blind person can do the same things 
> they do, or even things they can't or don't do, means that they've already 
> made some prior judgment about the capabilities of people with blindness. 
> It's really not much better than pity. Why should anybody be amazed that I 
> go to class, participate along with the rest of class, and do my 
> assignments? The only things that have or ever do keep people with 
> blindness from doing what others do are their own personal attitude toward 
> blindness and/or society's generally dismissive or devaluative attitudes 
> toward blind people. Many of the other obstacles that people with 
> blindness face stem form those two causes.-----Original Message----- 
> From: Dornetta
> Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 8:28 AM
> To: Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.
> Subject: Re: [nabs] sc school for the blind
>
> Desiree:
> I am appalled  to hear such a thing. It is still unbelievable  to me to 
> hear
> of such things or rather people doing such things. Like I said, I have not
> been blind all of my life and during my "sighted years", I was something
> fierce and probably would have served her up something nice despite our
> blind related handicaps LMAO!
> But I am sorry that you had to go through such a horrible  situation. It 
> is
> people like that one we are discussing that motivates me the most because 
> to
> speak frankly, I refuse to be blind/visually impaired and have society 
> look
> at me through eyes that hold pity; instead I would rather for them to look
> at me and view me through that hold amazement and wonder (although most of
> what we-blind/visually impaired-do does not amaze us) LOL
> Netta
> "Just because you are blind, does not mean you lack vision"-Stevie Wonder
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Desiree Oudinot" <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
> To: "Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students."
> <nabs at acb.org>
> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 9:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs] sc school for the blind
>
>
>> The thing is, you can't help someone unless they want to be helped.
>> You can't fix someone either. I was friends with a girl like the one
>> you describe for several years. She expected the world to be handed to
>> her on a silver platter because she didn't know any better. She is
>> very loud and is always in someone's face, demanding to know their
>> business or demanding to know everything that's going on in any given
>> situation. I know people she's taken karate with and she will just
>> march up in the building and say "show me where to sit down" to anyone
>> who will listen. Then she just sits there and runs her mouth rather
>> than do anything productive in the class. Besides that, she shows up
>> to any event looking sloppy and with stains on her clothes etc. She is
>> also morbidly obese. I don't say that to be mean but to show that I
>> clearly sympathize with your plight and how difficult it must be for
>> you to deal with. No matter how gently or harshly I told this girl
>> what she needed to do, she would either tune me out entirely or berate
>> me for my own shortcomings. When she entered college, she had no idea
>> what would be expected of her. She constantly asked me to do her work
>> for her. Needless to say I refused. This ultimately ended our
>> friendship.
>> She is now 25, still living with her parents, who are quite
>> dysfunctional I might add, so she would be better off somewhere else,
>> and still the same as she always was. She has no concept of living
>> independently. She barely knows how to cook or clean, so she orders
>> out constantly and usually only eats French fries. I have seen her do
>> this several times as well as act generally baffled once when I said I
>> didn't want to eat fries and nothing else for lunch. I guess I feel
>> sorry for her, but she chose her path, not to mention she burned a
>> bridge with me that could never be repaired. She forced herself on me
>> when she knew I wasn't that way. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing
>> against homosexuals, I'm just not one, but she did that and that was
>> basically the end for me.
>>
>> On 10/2/11, Alicia M. Starner <astarner at charter.net> wrote:
>>> Netta,
>>>
>>> I also think that is very sad that there was classes for her to improve 
>>> her
>>> skills on the computer and she refused them. That is very unfortunate 
>>> for
>>> her and the only one she is hurting is herself. I have some concerns and 
>>> a
>>> bit of doubt about her success as a college student. Very sad indeed!
>>>
>>> Alicia
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of 
>>> Ashley
>>> Bramlett
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 8:23 PM
>>> To: Discussion list for NABS, National Alliance of Blind Students.
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs] sc school for the blind
>>>
>>> Neta,
>>> That is sad. Some people won't learn even though it is offered. I 
>>> attended
>>> our rehab center for the blind, but did not improve many skills 
>>> including
>>> computers because of factors like not individualizing the program and
>>> disorganized teachers. But I did attend all classes! If the girl fails 
>>> to
>>> attend a class they set up for her, well then, that is her issue. She'll
>>> regret it someday!
>>> As for me I wanted to learn advanced internet skills and powerpoint, but 
>>> the
>>>
>>> computer program at the center only covered basics like Word processing
>>> commands. There was a little internet, but I already knew the basics of
>>> googgle searches.
>>>
>>> I've found people with bad skills too but they don't take the training 
>>> when
>>> its offered or do not seek out resources for help. Its sad but true.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Dornetta
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 8:53 PM
>>> To: Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs] sc school for the blind
>>>
>>> Alicia and Ashley:
>>> It is the sad truth but unfortunately, she has enrolled in a computer 
>>> here
>>> in SC that is free to her and a very wonderful programs set up by the
>>> commission for the blind where both JAWS & Zoom w/wo speech is taught. I
>>> must say, I graduated from the same program also. Like I said this 
>>> program
>>> is free and after completion a full copy of JAWS or Zoom w/wo speech is
>>> brought for your leisure although with a refurbished desk top computer. 
>>> Like
>>> I said I graduated from the program about 4-years ago and had no 
>>> problems
>>> with the computer. The young girl in question will not attend the 
>>> classes
>>> even though the person has made arrangments to teach the components 
>>> one-day
>>> a week (where the class is taught Tuesdays-Thursdays from 9-4 for 3 hrs
>>> each-depending on which program you need to learn and a 1 hr lunch taken
>>> from noon -1pm). It has been set up for to take the class on Wed. but 
>>> she
>>> has yet to attend which is the reason why she get so much friction from 
>>> me
>>> during class.
>>>
>>> Alicia, I commend you for your fight with your son and I don't have to 
>>> tell
>>> you to keep it up LOL. I am also glad to read that he is doing so well 
>>> in
>>> his studies *smile*
>>> Not to sound so mean or uncompassionate but I have very low tollerence 
>>> for
>>> those who do not want to help them selves. I have not been blind all my 
>>> life
>>> only for the last 15 years so the adjustment period was rough.  But it 
>>> works
>>> my nerves when I see blind/visually impaired people who do not want to 
>>> help
>>> them selves and would rather demand the help and feel that they are
>>> justified in the matter. SMH
>>> "Just because you are blind, does not mean you lack vision"-Stevie 
>>> Wonder
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students."
>>> <nabs at acb.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 8:24 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs] sc school for the blind
>>>
>>>
>>> Neta,
>>> I feel bad for the girl and she'll have to learn the hard way she cannot
>>> keep up and not all teachers will wait for her to catch up. She'll 
>>> probably
>>> fail college unless she takes a summer to get more skills.
>>> As I said, academics have a lot to be desired. But I know a few students
>>> graduating from the VA school for the blind VSDB who have technology 
>>> skills
>>> and they go to college. But many students are not college bound due to 
>>> other
>>> challenges. So just because they are not in college does not make VSDB 
>>> bad.
>>> So schools for the blind vary. If I were you, I'd try and ignore the 
>>> student
>>> or if you say anything, suggest she attend a summer program at a 
>>> training
>>> center. NFB centers have them and other centers do too. Her VR counselor
>>> might be able to send a technology teacher to her home to help her too.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ashley Bramlett
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 8:07 PM
>>> To: Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs] P.E. experiences
>>>
>>> Well, you cannot generalize from schools. SC school for the blind may do
>>> that. But I've heard other positive things from students.
>>> I know at the virginia school for the blind they are taught O&M everyday 
>>> and
>>> daily living most days of the week and they have clubs for them. They 
>>> are
>>> definitely taught computer skills. VSDB has a few computer labs.
>>> But now due to the budget funds are being cut for technology. I was
>>> discussing pros and cons of PE and I know that being with other blind 
>>> kids
>>> is very beneficial. They have teachers that explain things to the 
>>> students
>>> and no visual references are made.
>>>
>>>
>>> They can feel equal in PE and clubs there. VSDB even had a school 
>>> newspaper
>>> that the kids ran.
>>> I know two kids that moved from public school to VSDB and did not regret 
>>> it.
>>> They had needs that the school was not addressing.
>>> If inclusion worked, you would not have blind kids being nonparticipants 
>>> in
>>> PE classes. You wouldn't have them sitting there while partners did lab
>>> experiements and hardly spoke to you. Oh, yes I felt ignored in the 
>>> science
>>> lab.
>>> If inclusion worked, you would not have students graduating with 
>>> deficits in
>>> fitness, science, math, or any subject.
>>>
>>> Parts of inclusion are good like having to sit through a class and take
>>> notes. This helps prepare you for college and employment. You have a
>>> notetaking device, take notes, and study them at home and sighted 
>>> students
>>> take notes with pencil/paper.
>>>
>>> My parents were great advocates for academics but they left PE to the
>>> educators and just wanted me to get through it. They didn't know what I
>>> could do in PE either.
>>> Now there are more opportunities for blind kids to develop fitness. 
>>> There
>>> are camp abilities to teach these skills. I wish  I could have attended 
>>> camp
>>> abilities! They ought to make a basic fitness and intro to sports  camp 
>>> for
>>> adults!
>>> And as  a college student I'll add that I attempted to take ballroom
>>> dancing. The teacher was a jerk. Herefused to accommodate me and said 
>>> mean
>>> things like I'd slow his class down and he did not see how I could 
>>> dance. I
>>> dropped the class. I could have also filed a discrimination complaint. 
>>> This
>>> happenened at George Mason before I went to MU.
>>>
>>> I'm glad a few of you had positive PE experiences. PE is very important 
>>> due
>>> to the rising obesity problem.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Dornetta
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 7:39 PM
>>> To: Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs] P.E. experiences
>>>
>>> Hello!
>>> Here are my thoughts on the residential setting vs traditional.  I am
>>> currently taking a algebra class with another blind student (the first 
>>> blind
>>> student I have encountered at my college) and she comes from a 
>>> residential
>>> setting. In my honest opinion, (and this is only my opinion so sorry if 
>>> I
>>> offend anyone), her skills are deplorable! While she is somewhat OK in 
>>> the
>>> math department (meaning she can do the math with efficiency) she has 
>>> poor
>>> social and computer skills. She has the mind set that someone has to do
>>> EVERYTHING for her and she cannot do it by herself. I found myself 
>>> asking
>>> her in very blunt tones (just because I have a very low tollerance for 
>>> ish),
>>> what was her training like? She said it was great because they did
>>> everything for them. I found this sad mainly because she does not know 
>>> how
>>> to advocate for herself. She does not know how to do nothing for 
>>> herself.
>>> She sits beside me in class and asks me constantly to do this or that 
>>> for
>>> her; which I DO NOT! I want to say, she is not the first person that I 
>>> have
>>> encountered from this particular school that cannot "do for him or 
>>> herself"
>>> I cannot speak on other schools with residential settings but only for 
>>> the
>>> one that is in my state of SC and I just do not care for the residential
>>> setting for the educational needs of the blind; possibly with multiple
>>> disabilities. I find that they handicap the person more. The bully put
>>> aside, I think that blind/visually impaired persons should be educated 
>>> in
>>> the public school setting with the necessary help from TVIs and resource
>>> teachers. Think about, if one of us have to start training for a job, we 
>>> are
>>> trained with other blind/visually impaired "employees-to-be" instead, we 
>>> are
>>> trained with the rest of the sighted training class. In the public 
>>> school
>>> setting, the b/vi person can start thinking outside the box and also 
>>> start
>>> learning how to live in a world that was not made for them. Yes, being 
>>> blind
>>> is challenging but if the person is constantly given everything then how
>>> would they learn to ask. Now don't get me wrong, our math instructor 
>>> abides
>>> by the 504 and makes accomodations but simple tasks like logging on to 
>>> the
>>> class website and opening up the PDF file or worksheet is too difficult 
>>> for
>>> the girl; not to mention that she gets very loud when the teacher 
>>> proceeds
>>> before she can figure out how to open the file (and this after she 
>>> allows
>>> us-her and I about 6-7 minutes to get the file.) When I ask the 
>>> question,
>>> why don't you open the file before you come to class and save it on your
>>> desktop or in "my documents", she replies, why don't she just hands me a
>>> Braille copy? (may she is right, but allow me to say-she never told our
>>> counselor that she needs a Braille cope-GEESH!) Like I said, she is so 
>>> used
>>> to being handed all her materials in the correct format that she does 
>>> not
>>> fully understands what she needs to make her education work for her. She
>>> does not even know how to turn on her lap top or how to correctly or 
>>> should
>>> I say start JAWS or the navigation keys. Her response to my question of 
>>> what
>>> did you do at school is that they told them which keys to push, etc... 
>>> (So I
>>> am like WTF! *mouth wide open) Often, may of the classmates giggle or 
>>> LOL
>>> because my bluntness and I have to remind myself that this child is not 
>>> one
>>> of my children and try to keep the annoyance out of my voice.
>>> Trust me, I make all attempts to assist or help as much as possible 
>>> without
>>> missing so much of the lecture but it is diddicult most of the times. 
>>> Often,
>>> I have to stop class to explain techy to her which is not fair to the 
>>> other
>>> students but the teacher is so patient and allows a few minutes. LOL
>>> Sorry for the long response but those are my thoughts on the matter and 
>>> like
>>> I said above: I apologize if anything in this message offended anyone.
>>> Netta
>>> "Just because you are blind, does not mean you lack vision"-Stevie 
>>> Wonder
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Olivia Norman" <olivianorman at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students."
>>> <nabs at acb.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 6:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs] P.E. experiences
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Everyone,
>>> I think I'm another one, with proof that inclusion does work well.  I 
>>> don't
>>> know if I was just lucky, or what, but I never had any problems with 
>>> social
>>> skills, finding friends, etc.  The only exception to this was my 
>>> freshman
>>> year of high school, when my vision teacher sent me to my county's high
>>> school which had a vision resource room and suggested that I spend two
>>> periods a day in there that I absolutely didn't need.  This was 
>>> undoubtedly
>>> the most miserable year of both my parents, and my, lives.  We were
>>> exhausted, I was unhappy, because I'd been taken away from my home 
>>> district,
>>> friends, and instead of doing electives with my peers I was forced to 
>>> take
>>> resource periods with a vision teacher that I got no value from and 
>>> didn't
>>> need at all.  I have always been in honors classes, and was still in 
>>> honors
>>> classes that year, but had to have vision resource twice a day which 
>>> made me
>>> feel stupid, different, and sad.  I noticed that my peers in the vision
>>> resource room were functioning at a much lower level academically than I
>>> was, and that they'd been in  vision resource and lower level classes 
>>> all
>>> their school careers.  I know that I was extremely fortunate to be fully
>>> included in my local schools until high school, because I was 
>>> functioning on
>>> the same level as my sighted peers educationally, and I am not sure that
>>> this was the case with students in vision resource in my county.  During
>>> elementary and middle school, I met with a vision teacher twice a week 
>>> after
>>> school, and once during reading, so that I'd miss as little as possible. 
>>> I
>>> had O and M once a week after school, and saxophone lessons once a week 
>>> with
>>> a friend.  I didn't love having to have vision and O and M, but knew 
>>> that I
>>> needed to have the services in order to succeed, so went along and 
>>> learned
>>> what I could from them.
>>> After that disastrous year of high school, my parents moved me to a 
>>> small
>>> private school, where I made friends, did well academically, and no 
>>> longer
>>> got vision services.  My Dad contracted with a wonderful O and M 
>>> instructor
>>> who I spent many hours with after school each week, and who taught me 
>>> more
>>> than I'd ever learned in the school system.  She and I did public 
>>> transit,
>>> developed my cane skills so that I felt comfortable doing things I'd 
>>> never
>>> tried before, and she ultimately convinced me to get a guide dog my 
>>> senior
>>> year once she felt I was ready for it.  I started getting home from 
>>> school
>>> using busses and subways, which was a really liberating experience which
>>> stood me in great stead for college and beyond.
>>> As far as PE experiences, my elementary PE teacher was fabulous, and 
>>> adapted
>>> games for me.  He put a beeper on the basket in basketball, showed me 
>>> how to
>>> use a balance beam, and had classmates help me with other games.  I was
>>> always picked for teams, never experienced that issue, and I just did my
>>> best and learned what I could.
>>> Middle school was OK, but not great.  I warmed up like everyone else, 
>>> with a
>>> classmates help, and after that, honestly, many of the girls in my class 
>>> who
>>> weren't athletic would just jog around the field and socialize.  I was 
>>> part
>>> of this group of girls, they were my friends, and we'd watch the 
>>> athletic
>>> kids playing football, basketball, etc.  The only thing we took part in 
>>> was
>>> wrestling, and we mostly ended up in a laughing heap during that, 
>>> anyways.
>>> One important thing to note, that I haven't seen in this thread so far, 
>>> kids
>>> with disabilities aren't the only ones excluded from PE. It was my
>>> experience that so much of PE was centered around traditional team 
>>> sports,
>>> and those kids, disabled or not, who weren't good at sports found 
>>> themselves
>>> excluded.  My group of friends just weren't athletic, they weren't 
>>> disabled
>>> either, but sort of jogging and being a bunch of gossiping, giggling 
>>> girls,
>>> was  deemed completely fine by our PE teacher because we just didn't 
>>> have
>>> the skill or ability to play team sports.  I guess what I'm saying is 
>>> that
>>> the problem extends beyond kids with disabilities, and that it would be
>>> great to see some changes to the PE system as a whole, with less focus 
>>> on
>>> team sports and more focus on other areas of PE, so that everyone, not 
>>> just
>>> kids who are considered good at team sports can take part in PE classes.
>>> Remember that group of giggling seventh grade girls I talked about 
>>> earlier?
>>> Well, fourteen years later, many of us are still friends. I was recently 
>>> on
>>> a work trip to Silicon Valley, and had the chance to catch up with one 
>>> of
>>> them who now lives in San Francisco.  Perhaps nothing's changed, but we 
>>> had
>>> a good laugh over our middle school PE classes, where all we did was 
>>> talk
>>> about hot boys, they gave me great descriptions, while I know we should 
>>> have
>>> a better PE experience, I will always value my friendship with those 
>>> girls,
>>> and in some way, I guess that PE class was worth something.
>>> In high school, I had no PE for the first year, because I spent all that
>>> time in vision resource.  When I changed schools, we didn't have a PE
>>> requirement, so I had no PE one year, and did yoga for the next two, 
>>> which
>>> worked well, because it was a small class, and a classmate showed me the
>>> moves.
>>> I recognize that I was very fortunate because my family had the 
>>> resources to
>>> provide the best possible educational experience for me, but I really do
>>> believe that full inclusion works, and, in most cases, is a better 
>>> solution
>>> than schools for the blind in residential settings.
>>> In college, I had no major social issues.  I was fortunate to have a 
>>> good
>>> group of friends, and certainly did my share of normal college  stuff,
>>> partying, etc. :)
>>> When health issues forced me to transfer schools my junior year, I had
>>> different experience, because I lived at home and commuted, so found it
>>> harder to make friends in the huge  state school environment I was 
>>> suddenly
>>> thrown into.  I really don't think that was due to my blindness, though, 
>>> it
>>> was other health stuff, and mostly the fact that I was a commuter and 
>>> not
>>> into the fraternity seen.  Sighted people at my school who were commuter
>>> students and transfers were in the same boat, and those individuals
>>> eventually became my friends.
>>> Don't take this the wrong way, but sometimes, I feel that there's a 
>>> tendency
>>> to blain blindness for things like social issues, when there might be 
>>> more
>>> at play than simply being blind.  Sure, blindness contributes, but 
>>> sometimes
>>> there are multiple factors at play, and it's important to remember that.
>>> Sorry for the book, Just wanted to chime in and share my thoughts and
>>> experiences!
>>> Olivia
>>>
>>> "Have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow 
>>> already
>>> know what you truly want to become.", Steve Jobs
>>>
>>> On Oct 2, 2011, at 4:12 AM, Caitlin Lynch - ACBS Second VP wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Zack, that was an amazing description of a cartwheel! :)
>>>>    I think I can help a bit here with capture the flag. Picture a field 
>>>> or
>>>
>>>> gym floor divided in half, with a line of cones or something marking 
>>>> the
>>>> dividing line. there are two teams, one per side. Each team has a flag,
>>>> which they store at some chosen point on their half of the court. The 
>>>> flag
>>>
>>>> is visible to the other team and is normally stored as far away from 
>>>> the
>>>> dividing line as possible. There is a guard to watch over the flag. The
>>>> point of the game is that members of opposing teams run across the
>>>> dividing line to try to grab the other team's flag. They can be chased
>>>> down by members of the opposing team and sent to 'jail', which 
>>>> complicates
>>>
>>>> the game some. The only way they can be released is if someone from 
>>>> their
>>>> team comes over the line to tag them out. If someone from one team 
>>>> makes
>>>> it over to their own side of the court with the other team's flag, they
>>>> win the game. I remember loving it as a kid.
>>>>    I played it in blind camp. The dividing line was always made with 
>>>> very
>>>> thick tape,  so that you could feel it under your shoes as you ran. The
>>>> flags were beeper balls so you could target the sound as you tried to
>>>> obtain them. Its quite an easy game to play and quite an easy game to
>>>> adapt.
>>>>     In terms of p.e., I took adapted p.e.e until the eleventh grade. It
>>>> was always in my iep, but I was never pleased with it. I went to public
>>>> school and wanted to take regular gym like everyone else. In eleventh
>>>> grade, I swtched over. We had gym electibes in my school, since it was 
>>>> so
>>>> big, like net sports, team sports, weight traianing, etc. I took a
>>>> movement explortation class in 11th grade, which was all about dance,
>>>> yoga, karate, etc. the teacher was great and would explain things like
>>>> moves to me in great verbal detail kif I didn't understand them. I was
>>>> successful though in that class because i had a friend who I'd known 
>>>> since
>>>
>>>> I was seven or so who would be my partner and help mold my body 
>>>> physically
>>>
>>>> if need be. In 12th grade, I took a project adventure course that
>>>> emphasized team building skills. it involved a lot of ropes courses, 
>>>> rock
>>>> climbing, and really different activities. I made a good group of 
>>>> friends
>>>> in the course, but the teacher was really unhelpful and the class was
>>>> really big, which was overwhelming. I had hoped to get a lot of the
>>>> course, but it didn't work out well at all for me.
>>>>    In terms of inclusion, I think I'm proff that it does work. I was
>>>> mainstreamed all along. When I was in elementary school, I went to a
>>>> resource room in 1st grade, where I could focus my braille skills. This
>>>> was a service mostly for kids with learning disabilities, which I 
>>>> didn't
>>>> have, and it didn't really work for me. Most of my tvi services were 
>>>> right
>>>
>>>> in the classroom, where I could learn the skills I needed right along 
>>>> with
>>>
>>>> my classmates, with my tvi serving as almost a co teacher. When there
>>>> weren't lessons she could seamlessly integrate those skills in to, I 
>>>> got
>>>> pulled out. But I never felt like I missed anything of importance. When 
>>>> I
>>>> was in middle and high school, I would take a study hall period. 
>>>> Normally,
>>>
>>>> we had room for one elective in middle school, so I used my tvi time in
>>>> lieu of an every other day elective. The same went for high school, and
>>>> then I had more opportunities for electives, so it isn't like I missed 
>>>> out
>>>
>>>> on that experience either. In high school, I normally took a full 9 
>>>> period
>>>
>>>> schedule. In high school in my district lunch was something you could 
>>>> opt
>>>> out of, and I did, to get as much out of my day as I could and I'd just
>>>> eat in a sympathetic teacher's class or with my tvi, who is still to 
>>>> this
>>>> day one of my most favorite people alive.
>>>>    I wish I had more to say on the residential vs. public school 
>>>> debate.
>>>> It's always been a subject that fascinates me. I know that here, in New
>>>> York, our services for the blind are excellent. I live in Long Island, 
>>>> the
>>>
>>>> quintessential suburbs, and we're quite well known for tvi and o and m
>>>> services. There is a school for the blind near Manhattan, where the
>>>> services can be a bit lack  luster at times. There is also a school 
>>>> near
>>>> Buffalo, fairly close to the order with Canada. I was always told that
>>>> schools for the blind, at least her in New York, are mostly for 
>>>> multiply
>>>> disabled students. It was never an option for me to attend one, because 
>>>> I
>>>> got great services and actually had a solid group of friends in my home
>>>> district. I'd love to see Perkins or ISVI or WCBVI where I have heard
>>>> really positive things about programing. I haven't heard so much about 
>>>> our
>>>
>>>> residential schools here.
>>>> Caitlin
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 2, 2011, at 1:58 AM, "Zack Olson [ACB Student Advocate
>>>> Editor]"<editor.acbstudents at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ashley,
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure if my description will do any good, but a cartwheel is sort 
>>>>> of
>>>>> like this:
>>>>>
>>>>> From a running start a person turns their body sideways.  If the last
>>>>> forward step was on the right foot, they would sort of throw their 
>>>>> left
>>>>> foot outward and both arms up and outward diagonally. They would pivot
>>>>> their body sideways and downward, transferring their weight from their
>>>>> right leg to their right hand-which could then be placed flat on the
>>>>> ground. The transference of weight then continues ina circular motion,
>>>>> from the right nad to the left hand, then to the left foot, and than 
>>>>> back
>>>
>>>>> to both feet.
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Ashley Bramlett
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 11:58 PM
>>>>> To: Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs] P.E. experiences
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Zach,
>>>>> Wow, that was nearly a novel there. I, too, was ignored in school and
>>>>> was during college as well. But I found students were at least 
>>>>> pleasant
>>>>> and nice in college; I mean they'd say hi at least. And I was in a few
>>>>> clubs and felt more included than I did during public school 
>>>>> activities.
>>>>> I guess the students I hung out with were more mature; after all they
>>>>> were in campus ministry with me; it was a catholic school.
>>>>> Good luck with designing a program of study. I made my own degree too: 
>>>>> a
>>>>> BA in liberal studies; was going to study psychology  but was afraid 
>>>>> of
>>>>> doing statistics and really did not want to risk failing it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I see what you mean about residential schools. The students who I know
>>>>> opted to go to them had other challenges. They got some academics but 
>>>>> a
>>>>> lower standard and the extra curricular activities.
>>>>> They got to have sports clubs and feel included. I've known students 
>>>>> in
>>>>> track, wrestling, and cheerleading as well.
>>>>> I guess there's not a perfect answer.
>>>>>
>>>>> As to the sports in PE, they did play capture the flag in elementary 
>>>>> and
>>>>> middle school. I recall it was on a field, maybe the football field.
>>>>> Now that I have a little more knowledge of the games, I believe they
>>>>> could be adapted. For instance, for kickball, you'd just need a 
>>>>> beeping
>>>>> ball like they use in beep baseball and someone to talk at the base so
>>>>> you know where to run. Sounds like a fun game.
>>>>>
>>>>> I' wish I could see a cartwheel. Someday, I'll get someone to show me 
>>>>> in
>>>>> slow motion using a doll. I cannot exactly feel a person flying 
>>>>> through
>>>>> the air doing one. The only gymnastics  move I got okay was a forward
>>>>> roll.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, we'll see if others chime in later.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Zack Olson
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 12:38 AM
>>>>> To: Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs] P.E. experiences
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashley,
>>>>>
>>>>> You make a lot of very good points, and I agree with a lot of them.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as inclusion goes, I was mostly an inclusion student, and like 
>>>>> you
>>>
>>>>> I rarely ever felt included. In fact, for the years of my educational
>>>>> career up until high school, I was bullied pretty mercilessly. The
>>>>> bullying was much less in high school, especially because I was never
>>>>> afraid to hit back. It may not have been the smartest way to handle 
>>>>> the
>>>>> situations, but it kept people off my back more than the diplomatic
>>>>> approach ever did. In high school, the other students largely ignored 
>>>>> me,
>>>
>>>>> the same way they do here at college, though these days it doesn't 
>>>>> really
>>>
>>>>> bother me. There's a lot of people here I wouldn't want to hang out 
>>>>> with
>>>>> anyway. <wlEmoticon-smilewithtongueout[1].png>
>>>>>
>>>>> I also spent two years at one of the residential schools that were 
>>>>> *far*
>>>>> worse than my time in public schools. The problem with residential
>>>>> schools is that if you throw together a bunch of kids that have been
>>>>> neglected and bullied by their peers for so many years and give them 
>>>>> some
>>>
>>>>> semblence of control by putting them in a residential school where
>>>>> everyone is "the same", they will sometimes misuse that control, and
>>>>> bully each other as mercilessly as any sighted kid ever did. Hell,
>>>>> sometimes the staff is so emotionally immature that they get involved 
>>>>> as
>>>>> well. It's a self-contained community, a microcosm of the larger
>>>>> educational system and the larger society, but it has the potential to 
>>>>> be
>>>
>>>>> much more damaging. After all, if the people who are "just like you"
>>> don't
>>>>> accept you, who will? There's a lot of sighted vs. blind talk that 
>>>>> goes
>>>>> around, but blind people can be just as damaging to one another as
>>>>> sighted people can.
>>>>>
>>>>> In  my opinion, residential schools are great for students with 
>>>>> multiple
>>>>> disabilities, because employees at the residential schools are better
>>>>> trained to attend to their specific needs, but residential schools are
>>>>> not necessarily good for students who are just blind or visually
>>>>> impaired. There are very few of the students that graduated with me or 
>>>>> in
>>>
>>>>> the years directly before or after me that have gone on to find 
>>>>> gainful
>>>>> employment or attend college. I can count them on my two hands and 
>>>>> still
>>>>> have fingers left over.  The residential schools set a lower standard 
>>>>> for
>>>
>>>>> students, and that is as unacceptable as the public schools setting a
>>>>> lower standard for them. Also, their poor socialization and lack of
>>>>> knowledge about things that they would have been exposed to in public
>>>>> schools sets them further apart from "normal" people. Sometimes, the
>>>>> residential schools just aren't any better suited to teach students 
>>>>> with
>>>>> blindness or visual impairment than the public schools.
>>>>>
>>>>> I try to take a professional and unbiased stance on the concept of
>>>>> inclusion. It may not have worked entirely for me, but I have seen it
>>>>> work for some students, and those students are the ones that will end 
>>>>> up
>>>>> making a great deal of difference in the fight for acceptance and
>>>>> equality. It is true that you cannot make nondisabled students be 
>>>>> friends
>>>
>>>>> with disabled students, but some of them will end up liking the 
>>>>> disabled
>>>>> students, not all of them, but some of them. Some kids are just jerks,
>>>>> and they don't grow out of it as adults. Others do grow out of their
>>>>> egocentrism and when they do, it will make a difference that they have
>>>>> had experience in being around people with disabilities.
>>>>>
>>>>> Onto your other questions.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sort of in between majors right now. I have been a psych major,
>>>>> journalism major (for one semester), an education major (studying to 
>>>>> be a
>>>
>>>>> TVI), and thought about being an English major. Right now, I am in the
>>>>> process of designing a contract program that would allow me to major 
>>>>> in
>>>>> assistive technology for the blind and visually impaired. Basically, I
>>>>> have to select a list of classes along with independent studies or
>>>>> internships, plus a capstone experience (like a thesis project or
>>>>> something of that nature) that would fall into the area of study that 
>>>>> I
>>>>> am interested in. I also have to write a proposal justifying my 
>>>>> choices
>>>>> and send the whole thing through two different advisory committees 
>>>>> before
>>>
>>>>> it's official.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wanted to work possibly as a rehab teacher specializing in assistive
>>>>> tech, but would have had to get my undergrad in education first, as 
>>>>> the
>>>>> RT program here is just at the masters level. I didn't want to deal 
>>>>> with
>>>>> all the student teaching, classes I would never use, and ridiculous
>>>>> Illinois state certification standards-that don't make better teachers
>>>>> anyway-and then have to come back for a masters degree.  This way I 
>>>>> can
>>>>> skip all of that garbage and avoid taking the GRE as well. Plus the 
>>>>> field
>>>
>>>>> of assistive tech is really more about experience and skill, and I 
>>>>> have
>>>>> both of those already. I am hoping to work in training people to use
>>>>> assistive tech, as a consultant on assistive tech/web accessibility, 
>>>>> or
>>>>> possibly in R&D with one of the assistive tech companies, though my
>>>>> ultimate goal is to be a writer
>>>>> (novelist/journalist/nonfictionist/political commentator).
>>>>>
>>>>> I graduated in 2004-though I would have graduated in 2003 if I had
>>>>> decided not to stay for a fifth year of mostly ADL-related classes at 
>>>>> the
>>>
>>>>> residential school.  So I also avoided the ridiculousness of 
>>>>> standardized
>>>
>>>>> testing. Quite happy about that actually.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as the statement about math and reading deficiencies in 
>>>>> students
>>>>> with visual impairments, I don't have an exact article or source to 
>>>>> cite.
>>>
>>>>> In the field of education for the visually impaired, it is a generally
>>>>> accepted fact. That fact is based upon imperical information, but as I
>>>>> said, I am not positive of the sources. The head of the Visual
>>>>> Disabilities program here at NIU owns his own research firm, and I 
>>>>> could
>>>>> ask him for specific citations if you'd like.
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason that so many children with blindness and visual impairment
>>>>> develop deficiencies in math and reading is that they do not receive
>>>>> adequate early intervention or pre-school services from qualified
>>>>> professionals. It is also because-not necessarily through any fault of
>>>>> their own-many parents of children with visual impairment or blindness 
>>>>> do
>>>
>>>>> not know how to adapt early childhood activities for their children 
>>>>> and
>>>>> are not receiving the right instruction on how to do so from qualified
>>>>> professionals.  Any person with a visual impairment or blindness that 
>>>>> is
>>>>> not good in math or reading need not be too hard on themselves.  Both
>>>>> reading and math are highly visual concepts, and the spatial concepts
>>>>> involved in math need to be adapted in very specific ways in order to 
>>>>> be
>>>>> properly conveyed to a person with blindness or visual impairment.
>>>>>
>>>>> I myself am very lucky. I have always been very intelligent. I was
>>>>> usually one of the two or three smartest students in my classes
>>>>> throughout most of my educational career, at least until I got to the
>>>>> university level. I have always been pretty good at math, but find 
>>>>> that
>>>>> since my vision has started to decline (I have retinitis pigmentosa) 
>>>>> math
>>>
>>>>> is more difficult. I end up teaching most of the concepts to myself 
>>>>> with
>>>>> the use of a CCtv and notes from class. In all the math classes I've
>>>>> taken in college, I've felt that going to class has been a waste of 
>>>>> time
>>>>> about ninety percent of the time, since I end up just sitting and
>>>>> listening-or falling asleep-and then teaching the concepts to myself
>>>>> using the textbook later.
>>>>>
>>>>> About the observations I did during the course of my time as an 
>>>>> education
>>>
>>>>> major: I do still have a sufficient amount of sight that I can gather
>>>>> some information visually.  Any other information I felt I needed to
>>>>> know, I would ask about directly.  The teachers I observed were very
>>>>> willing to spend a bit of extra time with me working out and 
>>>>> discussing
>>>>> different aspects of whatever I had observed on a particular day. I 
>>>>> also
>>>>> think I had one up on some of the other students doing observations
>>>>> becauseunlike them, I am a visually impaired student, and know the 
>>>>> ropes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now onto sports and adaptations.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't really tell you how to adapt racket ball, since that's one 
>>>>> I've
>>>>> never really played. Although, from my general concept of the game, 
>>>>> I'm
>>>>> not sure that it would be easily adaptable for persons with visual
>>>>> impairment or blindness. I know it involves rackets ad bouncing a ball
>>>>> off the walls of a small room, but not much more than that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dodgeball could be fairly easily adapted by putting a bell or a beeper 
>>>>> in
>>>
>>>>> the balls.  Basically in dodge ball, a court is divided into two
>>>>> sections, one team on each side, There are a certain number of
>>>>> balls-usually four to six I believe-that are split evenly between 
>>>>> teams
>>>>> at the beginning of the first round. Basically when the whistle is 
>>>>> blown,
>>>
>>>>> the teams just throw the balls at one another. If you get hit, you are
>>>>> out. It's very willy nilly actually. I used to stand behind other 
>>>>> people
>>>>> and wait until they got hit, and then retrieve the ball from them as 
>>>>> they
>>>
>>>>> left the court. LOL; If the ball had a bell or beeper in it-more 
>>>>> likely a
>>>
>>>>> bell than a beeper-than a person with blindness or visual impairment
>>>>> would have a better chance of dodging it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can't help you with capture the flag. We never played that one in gym.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs mailing list
>>>>> nabs at acb.org
>>>>> http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs mailing list
>>>> nabs at acb.org
>>>> http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs mailing list
>>>> nabs at acb.org
>>>> http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs mailing list
>>> nabs at acb.org
>>> http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs mailing list
>>> nabs at acb.org
>>> http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs mailing list
>>> nabs at acb.org
>>> http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs mailing list
>>> nabs at acb.org
>>> http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs mailing list
>>> nabs at acb.org
>>> http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs mailing list
>>> nabs at acb.org
>>> http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs mailing list
>> nabs at acb.org
>> http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs mailing list
> nabs at acb.org
> http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs
> _______________________________________________
> nabs mailing list
> nabs at acb.org
> http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs