[nabs] inadequate accomodations

Wed Feb 8 22:21:54 EST 2012

Jordan,
I am getting mixed responses. Some say its accessible. I believe the 2010 version is not but from what I heard 2003 or earlier is.
Microsoft is getting more visual. darn. I asked a assistive tech person and he said it was hardly accessible.

So I’m thinking I might use SQL for class; my teacher is willing to give me an alternative assignment instead of access.

Ashley

From: Jordan Gallacher 
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 10:10 PM
To: tyler at tysdomain.com ; 'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.' 
Subject: Re: [nabs] inadequate accomodations

No Access is not accessible as stated by a director of training at a blind center.

Jordan

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From: nabs-bounces at acb.org [mailto:nabs-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Littlefield, Tyler
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 8:51 PM
To: Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.
Subject: Re: [nabs] inadequate accomodations

Hello:
I'm going to try to address your comments.
First, you mention holding the rail and walking with your cane. That's perfectly fine, there are backpacks suitable for carying laptops.
You also mentioned the inaccessibility of Microsoft Access. It's accessible. I know people that have used it. I do not personally; I choose to use SQL-style
databases for my databasing stuff, but it works.
You also mention Jaws upgrades. Unless they're in the stone age and running 4.02, does it really matter? I have 13 because it's supposed to (yeah, I said
supposed to) work with visual studio 2010. Otherwise I'd still be on 12. Unless the school has rolled out Windows sevne to all of their computers, it really
doesn't make a huge difference. Most of my school is still on XP, as is a lot of organizations.
I understand you don't want to cary the laptop, that's personal preference. Just know that that's kind of what the laptop is for, and if you want to go
to the tutoring center, just take your laptop with you and the tutor should be able to sit down with you.
Life -should- be equal access but it's not. There are so many things that we have to do differently because we are blind. It's not fair, it's not fun,
and it really does suck, but there's nothing we can do about it. "Should" and "is" are two totally different things. If you feel you can make a difference,
I encourage you to do so. But for something like that, I wouldn't bother. Maybe I'm wrong to accept things as they are, I don't know. But I find it easier
to accept some things and move on rather than dwell on how they could be made different.
As for always being at one computer, that really depends on the job. You could very well just be at one computer as well--your laptop.
I fully understand your concerns about the layout, but you are not physically disabled. Why does this matter? You have enough things to worry about being
blind, as is.

Finally, I'm really not sure what you mean about blind people not being able to do these things at work. It's all about the accomidations. I've done volunteer
jobs, I've gotten paid to do small stuff too, it really depends. Getting employed is much harder if you are blind, but honestly it's all about the attitude.
Being blind does not limit you to an entry-level position, and believing so means that you self-impose that limit on yourself.
On 2/8/2012 7:09 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: 

Hi,

Well, I wanted to see what other schools provide; I bet they are also lacking in technology.

I recall Neta’s school did not upgrade jaws either.

I got through college without carrying laptops up and down four or five flights of steps. I have a cane in one hand and hold the rail in the other so I don’t have a hand to carry other things. 

Its fine if many of you all do, but laptops don’t help me take notes in class so I use my braille note.

In college, I used the computer in the dorm, library, or computer lab for my work. I did not take an I T class, and therefore never ran into this issue.

I prefer not to take the laptop around with me; I am able to put it in my professor’s office and on days I need it it will be there. Its over five pounds and I have a backpack with a lunch bag too.

So yes I will accommodate myself there.

But still, I mean this should be equal access. Okay, right, legally they are not obligated to put

access on the professor’s computer. I stopped that fight. But there are computers in other areas such as the writing and tutoring centers.

If I go there for tutoring, I cannot access their computer with the software and things they have to assist students. 

No, they should not put jaws on every computer; just the main ones.

Knowing that I will take my laptop with paper there for help if I get tutoring.

Oh, in a job setting, you generally work at one computer so no need for several of them. The biggest barrier to job access is accessibility which neither organization seems to address. Software such as quickbooks, quicken, and even some microsoft stuff like Access is not accessible.

You cannot work around these barriers; if software is inaccessible, it stays that way and remains a barrier.

In college, we can work around some barriers, not others though. Also, if I were also physically disabled, I would be barred from entering some entrances and restrooms as all are not handicapped accessible.

I certainly do use what resources I can; usually readers for handouts not in electronic form. I also

study notes more than the average student. If I am lucky to have notes ahead of class, I preview them before class.

I have a membership to learning ally as well; thankfully, I can afford that.

At work,

blind employees cannot do that stuff so they either stay in entry level jobs or don’t even get them at all.

I was even rejected from a volunteer job because they doubted what I could do even though I talked about my skills, writing, research, phone skills etc. But they acted like they could not find work for me at red cross.

Now, I never said that something was inaccessible there or anything; I honestly did not know; I just told them I’d work with what they had and we could find something for me to do. Other than stuffing envelopes, it did not work. Sigh.

Ashley

From: Littlefield, Tyler 

Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 7:45 PM

To: Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students. 

Subject: Re: [nabs] inadequate accomodations

I'm really not sure what to tell you here. Life sucks, but that's really just how it goes.
No, they shouldn't put Jaws on every computer you point to because you point to it and want Jaws there. When you go to college, you have to learn to be independant and work around these issues--yes, I have some issues at college too.

You said you have a laptop. Why not just cary it with you to class? Take it to the professor's office that is tutoring you and you'll have jaws right there.

I know of one computer and a possible library computer that has Jaws on it. I've used them a couple times to print, mainly the computer in the disability services office since I never go to the library and I don't even know if that one has Jaws on it. Yes, it sucks having to find a specific computer, but like I said, that's really how it goes.

You always seem to find problems with my suggestions, but I'll throw them out there again for you. Take your laptop around with you. Yes, a braille note is lite, but it's not that big of a deal.
My day-to-day bagage consists of a couple of math books, a 10 lb laptop since I got a nicer 17" laptop, a guide dog that I need to keep track of, a coat and a lunch box I put my lunch in for the day.
Now I'm bigger than you, but I assume your laptop is also much smaller and you do not have a guide dog to worry about, so that's a fair tradeoff.

I'm going to throw something else out here. I guess it's ok to complain here, but if you have real questions, that would be better. In short though, we get these messages about once every week to two weeks, complaining about your school's accessibility, the office you have to work with, etc etc etc.

Now, I'll tell you this. You might have memorized the ADA book from front to back, and you might know -exactly- what you are entitled to. That doesn't mean you're going to get it every time, or even most of the time. It's how it works. Being blind, you have to make sacrifices, it sucks, no it shoudl be that way, but it is. Now, if you complain about all this as much to administrators and professors and the people in the office, that's great. But when you get out and you get a job, you will have to make exceptions and try to find ways to do things. If not, your job won't be there the next day and they will and can find a reason to get rid of you. They can descriminate on hiring you if you are blind, and just give a reason for not hiring you. They can do the exact same when they kick you out. So, basically I'm telling you to treat college as an opportunity to learn how to do this and move on. It's not easy attending college as a blind person, but you're not the first or last person to not have things made accessible. I understand it might suck carying around your laptop, but that's something you have to do.

On 2/8/2012 5:27 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: 

Hi all,

Just wondering what technology your campus has? Jaws? Up to date technology?

My disability counselor, Ms Ko, told this legal affairs guy I contacted that my request for a jaws copy was denied.

He apparently talked to her and saw my memo of accomodations.

He thinks nova is adequate for technology and supports denying me the jaws in the professor’s office because its meerly for tutoring.

He says this even though no jaws in other public areas; the assistive tech lab is not open yet.

They were supposed to open in february, but they are not ready.

I mean they do not have jaws in the writing, tutoring or career center or other public places such as the godwin building; yet they have like 30 netbooks

for student use there. Gee. 

BTW, I did reluctantly buy a laptop and the administrative assistant is watching over it while I’m in class til I see my professor  and take it home. I already carry a backpack with a braille note inside it so feel its best to put the laptop someplace safe while I’m in class, going to the library, restrooms, etc.

Rather than giving me a form for my dad to intervene, as I asked for, they get defensive.

Gee.

He said

Ms. Ko indicates that you requested NOVA provide JAWS on the computer of a professor who has volunteered to tutor you and that your request was denied. I support that denial because the college is not required to provide JAWS on computers of the professors whose classes you are taking or other volunteer tutors simply for the purpose of tutoring you.

In sum then, contrary to your statement I am of the opinion that NOVA has provided to you all of the accommodations to which you are entitled under law, notwithstanding that those accommodations do not always meet your personal preference. “

What a bunch of crap and jargain.

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