From alice.ritchhart at comcast.net Tue May 1 09:32:10 2012 From: alice.ritchhart at comcast.net (Alice Ritchhart) Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 09:32:10 -0400 Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail In-Reply-To: <032f01cd273f$58242880$086c7980$@com> References: <008501cd26ef$8520f020$8f62d060$@com> <20120430181210.94BFA6AAEAE@mail2.acb.org> <15F55D1CB7DE4EF2A46B0F69F79C49AB@Donna> <032f01cd273f$58242880$086c7980$@com> Message-ID: <20120501133323.46FA06AB407@mail2.acb.org> Good points Darla. Good luck with transparency it is nowhere in government. I know here in Georgia for awhile the paratransit systems were ran by a Canadian company, and I think had two many pieces of pie to monitor and did a lousy job at all. The key is for us to be at the table, and not just one or two but lots orf us, and that is when we need to network with all those who are impacted by transit. Alice At 10:08 PM 4/30/2012, you wrote: >Donna, > >Everything you said is so very right on; I know we should probably have >moved further into the city, but, in areas where we would have wanted to >live, houses were actually more expensive, so we chose our suburb and love >it here and we do have businesses we can walk to, and, at one time, we had a >Flex Bus that used to take us quite a few places for much cheaper than >Share-a-Fare--we used it, at first and then were told they don't go East of >Antioch anymore because the nursing home on the corner didn't use it. We >hear we're getting it back but never were able to learn of its exact route. > >Also, information on KCATA's site isn't at all accessible, so I feel that is >a barrier to using the fixed route system, and any improvements made, go to >areas that, IMO are already well-served even though we live in the Northland >(North of the Missouri River) which is the fastest-growing area of the >metropolitan area and, in fact, grew by 10 percent from the 2000 census to >the 2010 census, and I suspect it is growing even faster than that. > >We have just got to put KCATA meetings on our calendar and be there; be >loud; be assertive; whatever we have to do, but the lack of transparency >really bothers me. > >A driver told me our Share-A- >Fare is owned by a large French company; they do the driving; I think they >employ the order takers and KCATA makes up the routes--or so I understand >after talking to many, many people. > >I have lived in cities where I only used public transportation which is my >preference when I can do so because I have some flexibility in going from >place t5o place, but a lot of blind people now have acquired secondary or >even tertiary disabilities which really do prevent them from using the fixed >route system. > >Also, in some areas, it appears training to use the fixed route systems is >more talk than action; maybe someone who has undergone training to use fixed >route systems can speak to this. > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: transportation-bounces at acb.org [mailto:transportation-bounces at acb.org] >On Behalf Of Donna Rose >Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 8:22 PM >To: Transportation is an open list for people who want to talk >abouttransportation issues in their communities, and to share important >transportation issues that require action. >Subject: Re: [transportation] Following the Money trail > >Hi Darla, > >I think this is what bothers me the most about paratransit providers. When >you have a complaint and try to resolve it with the transit authority, it >seems not to be heard or ever resolved whether it is a large or small >complaint. It's like paratransit is like an unwanted step-child. But >transit authorities receive federal funds for such programs. I think part >of the problem lies in the fact there are people riding who should be using >the fixed route buses. Our local CIL approves the people, and I think they >are sometimes on the too liberal side when deciding who is eligible. >This same thing has happened in Michigan with "Handicapped Parking" passes. >Anyone can get one, but then the person who really needs that space doesn't >have one. With paratransit it all adds up to pickups being late and rides >being long because there are just too many people asking to be eligible for >the system. I have actually heard people here who work in downtown Lansing, >where parking can be very expensive, talking about applying for our >paratransit so they don't have to pay for the huge parking fees. I also >think in providing these services that there is a fair amount of money >wasted in such things as misrouted vehicles, and sending vehicles back to a >pickup when someone has been "no showed" because they are really there and >the driver didn't look good enough for them the first time. > >I am extremely glad we have paratransit, and I try and use the fixed route >buses as often as possible when I am able. I would like to see some sort of >paratransit riders union, though, so we could at least believe we have some >kind of power. > > > > >Go Bravely, >Donna Rose, LMSW > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Alice Ritchhart" >To: "Transportation is an open list for people who want to talk >abouttransportation issues in their communities,and to share important >transportation issues that require action." >Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 2:07 PM >Subject: Re: [transportation] Following the Money trail > > > >I would contact the Department of Justice, or Easter Seals Project > >Action they maybe able to give you some suggestions on what complaint > >process to follow. It might be that you need to file a complaint with > >DOT at the federal level to get them to investigate. However first keep > >dates times and places of when the infraction occurs. > > Alice > > > > At 12:37 PM 4/30/2012, you wrote: > >>Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > >> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0086_01CD26C5.9C4AE820" > >>Content-Language: en-us > >> > >>We have Share-a-Fare in Kansas City; they provide transportation for > >>our Paratransit as well as carrying the general public, so very often, > >>the last 4 times I have ridden, they have been at least, an hour past > >>my window. I can complain, either by phone or online, but it seems to > >>do no good, and I set up my rides in the prescribed length of time, > >>but there is very little written on the > >> > >>www.kcata.com > >> > >>web site about rules, etc. etc., so I honestly don't know where to > >>look to get the information I need. > >> > >> > >> > >>Darla J. Rogers > >>djrogers0628 at gmail.com > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>transportation mailing list > >>transportation at acb.org > >>http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation > > > > _______________________________________________ > > transportation mailing list > > transportation at acb.org > > http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation > >_______________________________________________ >transportation mailing list >transportation at acb.org >http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation > >_______________________________________________ >transportation mailing list >transportation at acb.org >http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation From SStyron at thewholeperson.org Tue May 1 09:40:00 2012 From: SStyron at thewholeperson.org (Sheila Styron) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 13:40:00 +0000 Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail In-Reply-To: <75FDA860-30F3-4E53-A11F-E8DB50DFD886@wowway.com> References: <008501cd26ef$8520f020$8f62d060$@com> <20120430181210.94BFA6AAEAE@mail2.acb.org> <15F55D1CB7DE4EF2A46B0F69F79C49AB@Donna> <032f01cd273f$58242880$086c7980$@com>, <75FDA860-30F3-4E53-A11F-E8DB50DFD886@wowway.com> Message-ID: <4AD1F6D7-927A-4E1F-9B55-8FB9464C1E11@thewholeperson.org> One of my pet peeves is able bodied blind people totally relying on paratransit with no obvious effort having gone into planning where they live in terms of optimizing local transportation options and proximity to essentials like grocery shopping. Then they complain about not being able to get anywhere unless someone gives them a ride. I know too many people who can't go anywhere without paratransit, having forgotten how to cross streets and plan bus trips. If more people demanded more and better public transportation, which could be partially accomplished by using it and increasing demand, we would be helping the entire system in several ways. Kansas City has just set up a travel training program through KCATA, which sadly, I fear people will not take advantage of. I can practically count the people who are blind on one hand who actually regularly take buses. Where are they getting these messages? Why would blind pedestrians not choose more independent travel? Paratransit has been both a blessing and a curse. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 30, 2012, at 9:47 PM, "Ray Campbell" wrote: Hi Darla and All: If what I've heard is true it makes me very sad. I've heard that in some places, Orientation and Mobility instructors actually encourage people who are blind to sign up for and take paratransit. Boy, my O and M instructors would have had none of that if we had paratransit when I was being trained. I agree that using fixed route is preferrable with the flexibility you have. However, it is also very true about the secondary disability issues. Ray Campbell ray1530 at wowway.com Sent from my iPhone On Apr 30, 2012, at 9:08 PM, "Darla Rogers" wrote: > Donna, > > Everything you said is so very right on; I know we should probably have > moved further into the city, but, in areas where we would have wanted to > live, houses were actually more expensive, so we chose our suburb and love > it here and we do have businesses we can walk to, and, at one time, we had a > Flex Bus that used to take us quite a few places for much cheaper than > Share-a-Fare--we used it, at first and then were told they don't go East of > Antioch anymore because the nursing home on the corner didn't use it. We > hear we're getting it back but never were able to learn of its exact route. > > Also, information on KCATA's site isn't at all accessible, so I feel that is > a barrier to using the fixed route system, and any improvements made, go to > areas that, IMO are already well-served even though we live in the Northland > (North of the Missouri River) which is the fastest-growing area of the > metropolitan area and, in fact, grew by 10 percent from the 2000 census to > the 2010 census, and I suspect it is growing even faster than that. > > We have just got to put KCATA meetings on our calendar and be there; be > loud; be assertive; whatever we have to do, but the lack of transparency > really bothers me. > > A driver told me our Share-A- > Fare is owned by a large French company; they do the driving; I think they > employ the order takers and KCATA makes up the routes--or so I understand > after talking to many, many people. > > I have lived in cities where I only used public transportation which is my > preference when I can do so because I have some flexibility in going from > place t5o place, but a lot of blind people now have acquired secondary or > even tertiary disabilities which really do prevent them from using the fixed > route system. > > Also, in some areas, it appears training to use the fixed route systems is > more talk than action; maybe someone who has undergone training to use fixed > route systems can speak to this. > > > > -----Original Message----- _______________________________________________ transportation mailing list transportation at acb.org http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation From alice.ritchhart at comcast.net Tue May 1 09:44:16 2012 From: alice.ritchhart at comcast.net (Alice Ritchhart) Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 09:44:16 -0400 Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail In-Reply-To: <75FDA860-30F3-4E53-A11F-E8DB50DFD886@wowway.com> References: <008501cd26ef$8520f020$8f62d060$@com> <20120430181210.94BFA6AAEAE@mail2.acb.org> <15F55D1CB7DE4EF2A46B0F69F79C49AB@Donna> <032f01cd273f$58242880$086c7980$@com> <75FDA860-30F3-4E53-A11F-E8DB50DFD886@wowway.com> Message-ID: <20120501134822.A36356AB407@mail2.acb.org> In Savannah the transit and the center for the blind and the Independent Living center have annual work shops on how to ride and use the fixed route system. Alice At 10:46 PM 4/30/2012, you wrote: >Hi Darla and All: > >If what I've heard is true it makes me very sad. I've heard that in >some places, Orientation and Mobility instructors actually encourage >people who are blind to sign up for and take paratransit. Boy, my O >and M instructors would have had none of that if we had paratransit >when I was being trained. > >I agree that using fixed route is preferrable with the flexibility >you have. However, it is also very true about the secondary disability issues. > >Ray Campbell >ray1530 at wowway.com > > >Sent from my iPhone > >On Apr 30, 2012, at 9:08 PM, "Darla Rogers" wrote: > > > Donna, > > > > Everything you said is so very right on; I know we should probably have > > moved further into the city, but, in areas where we would have wanted to > > live, houses were actually more expensive, so we chose our suburb and love > > it here and we do have businesses we can walk to, and, at one > time, we had a > > Flex Bus that used to take us quite a few places for much cheaper than > > Share-a-Fare--we used it, at first and then were told they don't > go East of > > Antioch anymore because the nursing home on the corner didn't use it. We > > hear we're getting it back but never were able to learn of its exact route. > > > > Also, information on KCATA's site isn't at all accessible, so I > feel that is > > a barrier to using the fixed route system, and any improvements made, go to > > areas that, IMO are already well-served even though we live in > the Northland > > (North of the Missouri River) which is the fastest-growing area of the > > metropolitan area and, in fact, grew by 10 percent from the 2000 census to > > the 2010 census, and I suspect it is growing even faster than that. > > > > We have just got to put KCATA meetings on our calendar and be there; be > > loud; be assertive; whatever we have to do, but the lack of transparency > > really bothers me. > > > > A driver told me our Share-A- > > Fare is owned by a large French company; they do the driving; I think they > > employ the order takers and KCATA makes up the routes--or so I understand > > after talking to many, many people. > > > > I have lived in cities where I only used public transportation which is my > > preference when I can do so because I have some flexibility in going from > > place t5o place, but a lot of blind people now have acquired secondary or > > even tertiary disabilities which really do prevent them from > using the fixed > > route system. > > > > Also, in some areas, it appears training to use the fixed route systems is > > more talk than action; maybe someone who has undergone training > to use fixed > > route systems can speak to this. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- >_______________________________________________ >transportation mailing list >transportation at acb.org >http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation From alice.ritchhart at comcast.net Tue May 1 09:52:05 2012 From: alice.ritchhart at comcast.net (Alice Ritchhart) Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 09:52:05 -0400 Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail In-Reply-To: <4AD1F6D7-927A-4E1F-9B55-8FB9464C1E11@thewholeperson.org> References: <008501cd26ef$8520f020$8f62d060$@com> <20120430181210.94BFA6AAEAE@mail2.acb.org> <15F55D1CB7DE4EF2A46B0F69F79C49AB@Donna> <032f01cd273f$58242880$086c7980$@com> <75FDA860-30F3-4E53-A11F-E8DB50DFD886@wowway.com> <4AD1F6D7-927A-4E1F-9B55-8FB9464C1E11@thewholeperson.org> Message-ID: <20120501135322.D7F856AB407@mail2.acb.org> You are right. In Savannah there are several folks who even have good usable vision who more often than not take paratransit rather than avail themselves of the fixed route system which is pretty good (not perfect). Then they wonder why service gets cut. What I even am more amused by is that in Savannah most of those using the paratransit are NFB folks, and those using the fixed route are the ACB members. I find this amusing since it is the NFB who so often loudly proclaims to be independent travelers. Alice At 09:40 AM 5/1/2012, you wrote: >One of my pet peeves is able bodied blind people totally relying on >paratransit with no obvious effort having gone into planning where >they live in terms of optimizing local transportation options and >proximity to essentials like grocery shopping. Then they complain >about not being able to get anywhere unless someone gives them a >ride. I know too many people who can't go anywhere without >paratransit, having forgotten how to cross streets and plan bus >trips. If more people demanded more and better public >transportation, which could be partially accomplished by using it >and increasing demand, we would be helping the entire system in >several ways. Kansas City has just set up a travel training program >through KCATA, which sadly, I fear people will not take advantage >of. I can practically count the people who are blind on one hand who >actually regularly take buses. Where are they getting these >messages? Why would blind pedestrians not choose more independent >travel? Paratransit > has been both a blessing and a curse. > >Sent from my iPhone > >On Apr 30, 2012, at 9:47 PM, "Ray Campbell" wrote: > >Hi Darla and All: > >If what I've heard is true it makes me very sad. I've heard that in >some places, Orientation and Mobility instructors actually encourage >people who are blind to sign up for and take paratransit. Boy, my O >and M instructors would have had none of that if we had paratransit >when I was being trained. > >I agree that using fixed route is preferrable with the flexibility >you have. However, it is also very true about the secondary disability issues. > >Ray Campbell >ray1530 at wowway.com > > >Sent from my iPhone > >On Apr 30, 2012, at 9:08 PM, "Darla Rogers" wrote: > > > Donna, > > > > Everything you said is so very right on; I know we should probably have > > moved further into the city, but, in areas where we would have wanted to > > live, houses were actually more expensive, so we chose our suburb and love > > it here and we do have businesses we can walk to, and, at one > time, we had a > > Flex Bus that used to take us quite a few places for much cheaper than > > Share-a-Fare--we used it, at first and then were told they don't > go East of > > Antioch anymore because the nursing home on the corner didn't use it. We > > hear we're getting it back but never were able to learn of its exact route. > > > > Also, information on KCATA's site isn't at all accessible, so I > feel that is > > a barrier to using the fixed route system, and any improvements made, go to > > areas that, IMO are already well-served even though we live in > the Northland > > (North of the Missouri River) which is the fastest-growing area of the > > metropolitan area and, in fact, grew by 10 percent from the 2000 census to > > the 2010 census, and I suspect it is growing even faster than that. > > > > We have just got to put KCATA meetings on our calendar and be there; be > > loud; be assertive; whatever we have to do, but the lack of transparency > > really bothers me. > > > > A driver told me our Share-A- > > Fare is owned by a large French company; they do the driving; I think they > > employ the order takers and KCATA makes up the routes--or so I understand > > after talking to many, many people. > > > > I have lived in cities where I only used public transportation which is my > > preference when I can do so because I have some flexibility in going from > > place t5o place, but a lot of blind people now have acquired secondary or > > even tertiary disabilities which really do prevent them from > using the fixed > > route system. > > > > Also, in some areas, it appears training to use the fixed route systems is > > more talk than action; maybe someone who has undergone training > to use fixed > > route systems can speak to this. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- >_______________________________________________ >transportation mailing list >transportation at acb.org >http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation >_______________________________________________ >transportation mailing list >transportation at acb.org >http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation From djrogers0628 at gmail.com Tue May 1 09:59:14 2012 From: djrogers0628 at gmail.com (Darla Rogers) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 08:59:14 -0500 Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail In-Reply-To: <4AD1F6D7-927A-4E1F-9B55-8FB9464C1E11@thewholeperson.org> References: <008501cd26ef$8520f020$8f62d060$@com> <20120430181210.94BFA6AAEAE@mail2.acb.org> <15F55D1CB7DE4EF2A46B0F69F79C49AB@Donna> <032f01cd273f$58242880$086c7980$@com>, <75FDA860-30F3-4E53-A11F-E8DB50DFD886@wowway.com> <4AD1F6D7-927A-4E1F-9B55-8FB9464C1E11@thewholeperson.org> Message-ID: <055901cd27a2$98a4e120$c9eea360$@com> Very true, Sheila, and I'm checking into this training, but it is still my hope that the Northland will be recognized for the growing area it is--and has been--so we can get more places independently. -----Original Message----- From: transportation-bounces at acb.org [mailto:transportation-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Sheila Styron Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 8:40 AM To: Transportation is an open list for people who want to talk abouttransportation issues in their communities, and to share importanttransportation issues that require action. Cc: Transportation is an open list for people who want to talk abouttransportation issues in their communities, and to share important transportation issues that require action. Subject: Re: [transportation] Following the Money trail One of my pet peeves is able bodied blind people totally relying on paratransit with no obvious effort having gone into planning where they live in terms of optimizing local transportation options and proximity to essentials like grocery shopping. Then they complain about not being able to get anywhere unless someone gives them a ride. I know too many people who can't go anywhere without paratransit, having forgotten how to cross streets and plan bus trips. If more people demanded more and better public transportation, which could be partially accomplished by using it and increasing demand, we would be helping the entire system in several ways. Kansas City has just set up a travel training program through KCATA, which sadly, I fear people will not take advantage of. I can practically count the people who are blind on one hand who actually regularly take buses. Where are they getting these messages? Why would blind pedestrians not choose more independent travel? Paratransit has been both a blessing and a curse. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 30, 2012, at 9:47 PM, "Ray Campbell" wrote: Hi Darla and All: If what I've heard is true it makes me very sad. I've heard that in some places, Orientation and Mobility instructors actually encourage people who are blind to sign up for and take paratransit. Boy, my O and M instructors would have had none of that if we had paratransit when I was being trained. I agree that using fixed route is preferrable with the flexibility you have. However, it is also very true about the secondary disability issues. Ray Campbell ray1530 at wowway.com Sent from my iPhone On Apr 30, 2012, at 9:08 PM, "Darla Rogers" wrote: > Donna, > > Everything you said is so very right on; I know we should probably > have moved further into the city, but, in areas where we would have > wanted to live, houses were actually more expensive, so we chose our > suburb and love it here and we do have businesses we can walk to, and, > at one time, we had a Flex Bus that used to take us quite a few places > for much cheaper than Share-a-Fare--we used it, at first and then were > told they don't go East of Antioch anymore because the nursing home > on the corner didn't use it. We hear we're getting it back but never were able to learn of its exact route. > > Also, information on KCATA's site isn't at all accessible, so I feel > that is a barrier to using the fixed route system, and any > improvements made, go to areas that, IMO are already well-served even > though we live in the Northland (North of the Missouri River) which is > the fastest-growing area of the metropolitan area and, in fact, grew > by 10 percent from the 2000 census to the 2010 census, and I suspect it is growing even faster than that. > > We have just got to put KCATA meetings on our calendar and be there; > be loud; be assertive; whatever we have to do, but the lack of > transparency really bothers me. > > A driver told me our Share-A- > Fare is owned by a large French company; they do the driving; I think > they employ the order takers and KCATA makes up the routes--or so I > understand after talking to many, many people. > > I have lived in cities where I only used public transportation which > is my preference when I can do so because I have some flexibility in > going from place t5o place, but a lot of blind people now have > acquired secondary or even tertiary disabilities which really do > prevent them from using the fixed route system. > > Also, in some areas, it appears training to use the fixed route > systems is more talk than action; maybe someone who has undergone > training to use fixed route systems can speak to this. > > > > -----Original Message----- _______________________________________________ transportation mailing list transportation at acb.org http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation _______________________________________________ transportation mailing list transportation at acb.org http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation From ray1530 at wowway.com Tue May 1 10:24:54 2012 From: ray1530 at wowway.com (Ray Campbell) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 09:24:54 -0500 Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail In-Reply-To: <4AD1F6D7-927A-4E1F-9B55-8FB9464C1E11@thewholeperson.org> References: <008501cd26ef$8520f020$8f62d060$@com> <20120430181210.94BFA6AAEAE@mail2.acb.org> <15F55D1CB7DE4EF2A46B0F69F79C49AB@Donna> <032f01cd273f$58242880$086c7980$@com>, <75FDA860-30F3-4E53-A11F-E8DB50DFD886@wowway.com> <4AD1F6D7-927A-4E1F-9B55-8FB9464C1E11@thewholeperson.org> Message-ID: <002801cd27a6$2d73a360$885aea20$@com> Hi Sheila: I tend to strongly agree with you. While part of me says, hey, however someone gets from point A to point B, it's important that they do it, people need to realize transit systems all over the country are spending huge amounts of money on Paratransit. I think a lot of people do not realize that the fare they pay for Paratransit only covers maybe 10 to 15 percent of the actual trip cost. I think the last Chicago area numbers I heard were that the true cost of each Paratransit trip is about $21 or $22; the passenger's fare is $3. There are NFB folks in Chicago who call the Chicago Lighthouse the biggest parking lot for Paratransit vehicles there is. Those who are blind with no other disabilities, good, safe sidewalks to transit stops and safe intersections should be steered towards main line transit. One of my friends who recently moved to a large city with a pretty good transit system takes Paratransit everywhere and has no quams about doing it. She even told me, as tired as my brain is by the end of my work day, why should I have to worry about taking busses and crossing streets? While I think we who are blind should be able to make the same living choices others do, we must also accept responsibility for those choices. While we live in a suburb, it's only about a half hour to 45 minute walk to essentials like grocery and drug stores, banking and other things with really only one bad street crossing. While I know some people cannot walk that far, or have legitimate issues crossing wide, busy streets for those of us who can, it's great, easy exercise. Thanks, Ray Campbell ray1530 at wowway.com Skype Name: ray650315 Check out my blog at farmers-boy.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/packerbackerray Follow me on FaceBook: www.facebook.com/packerbackerray From kenmetz1946 at gmail.com Tue May 1 10:32:16 2012 From: kenmetz1946 at gmail.com (Ken Metz) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 07:32:16 -0700 Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail In-Reply-To: <4AD1F6D7-927A-4E1F-9B55-8FB9464C1E11@thewholeperson.org> References: <008501cd26ef$8520f020$8f62d060$@com> <20120430181210.94BFA6AAEAE@mail2.acb.org> <15F55D1CB7DE4EF2A46B0F69F79C49AB@Donna> <032f01cd273f$58242880$086c7980$@com>, <75FDA860-30F3-4E53-A11F-E8DB50DFD886@wowway.com> <4AD1F6D7-927A-4E1F-9B55-8FB9464C1E11@thewholeperson.org> Message-ID: <002401cd27a7$36400780$a2c01680$@gmail.com> Hi Sheila. You have some great points because a lot of us used to still travel before Para Transit Ever existed. However, as a lot of us have gotten older, there are secondary difficulties to traveling be it Arthritis, Diabetes and related neuropathy, and a lack of studies on long term effects of persons with RLF/ROP. There have been hearing changes in many people, and just overall situations that were not predictable in the early years of a blind person traveling. We also didn't have quiet cars mixed in with noisy cars and trucks on the same level as we do today. We had 1/2 to 1/3 the numbers of people traveling by automobile in this country when many of us were younger. A lot of places didn't have right turns on red lights when many of us were growing up. I guess that what I'm saying is that there have been numerous differences over a 50 plus year period of time. It was easier to hear a horse than a quiet car. One last thing is that these Para Transit agencies have travel trainers, but not O&M specialists. They don't have nearly the same qualifications as an O&M instructor. Ken Metz -----Original Message----- From: transportation-bounces at acb.org [mailto:transportation-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Sheila Styron Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 6:40 AM To: Transportation is an open list for people who want to talk about transportation issues in their communities, and to share important transportation issues that require action. Cc: Transportation is an open list for people who want to talk about transportation issues in their communities, and to share important transportation issues that require action. Subject: Re: [transportation] Following the Money trail One of my pet peeves is able bodied blind people totally relying on paratransit with no obvious effort having gone into planning where they live in terms of optimizing local transportation options and proximity to essentials like grocery shopping. Then they complain about not being able to get anywhere unless someone gives them a ride. I know too many people who can't go anywhere without paratransit, having forgotten how to cross streets and plan bus trips. If more people demanded more and better public transportation, which could be partially accomplished by using it and increasing demand, we would be helping the entire system in several ways. Kansas City has just set up a travel training program through KCATA, which sadly, I fear people will not take advantage of. I can practically count the people who are blind on one hand who actually regularly take buses. Where are they getting these messages? Why would blind pedestrians not choose more independent travel? Paratransit has been both a blessing and a curse. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 30, 2012, at 9:47 PM, "Ray Campbell" wrote: Hi Darla and All: If what I've heard is true it makes me very sad. I've heard that in some places, Orientation and Mobility instructors actually encourage people who are blind to sign up for and take paratransit. Boy, my O and M instructors would have had none of that if we had paratransit when I was being trained. I agree that using fixed route is preferrable with the flexibility you have. However, it is also very true about the secondary disability issues. Ray Campbell ray1530 at wowway.com Sent from my iPhone On Apr 30, 2012, at 9:08 PM, "Darla Rogers" wrote: > Donna, > > Everything you said is so very right on; I know we should probably > have moved further into the city, but, in areas where we would have > wanted to live, houses were actually more expensive, so we chose our > suburb and love it here and we do have businesses we can walk to, and, > at one time, we had a Flex Bus that used to take us quite a few places > for much cheaper than Share-a-Fare--we used it, at first and then were > told they don't go East of Antioch anymore because the nursing home > on the corner didn't use it. We hear we're getting it back but never were able to learn of its exact route. > > Also, information on KCATA's site isn't at all accessible, so I feel > that is a barrier to using the fixed route system, and any > improvements made, go to areas that, IMO are already well-served even > though we live in the Northland (North of the Missouri River) which is > the fastest-growing area of the metropolitan area and, in fact, grew > by 10 percent from the 2000 census to the 2010 census, and I suspect it is growing even faster than that. > > We have just got to put KCATA meetings on our calendar and be there; > be loud; be assertive; whatever we have to do, but the lack of > transparency really bothers me. > > A driver told me our Share-A- > Fare is owned by a large French company; they do the driving; I think > they employ the order takers and KCATA makes up the routes--or so I > understand after talking to many, many people. > > I have lived in cities where I only used public transportation which > is my preference when I can do so because I have some flexibility in > going from place t5o place, but a lot of blind people now have > acquired secondary or even tertiary disabilities which really do > prevent them from using the fixed route system. > > Also, in some areas, it appears training to use the fixed route > systems is more talk than action; maybe someone who has undergone > training to use fixed route systems can speak to this. > > > > -----Original Message----- _______________________________________________ transportation mailing list transportation at acb.org http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation _______________________________________________ transportation mailing list transportation at acb.org http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation From kenmetz1946 at gmail.com Tue May 1 10:38:48 2012 From: kenmetz1946 at gmail.com (Ken Metz) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 07:38:48 -0700 Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail In-Reply-To: <002801cd27a6$2d73a360$885aea20$@com> References: <008501cd26ef$8520f020$8f62d060$@com> <20120430181210.94BFA6AAEAE@mail2.acb.org> <15F55D1CB7DE4EF2A46B0F69F79C49AB@Donna> <032f01cd273f$58242880$086c7980$@com>, <75FDA860-30F3-4E53-A11F-E8DB50DFD886@wowway.com> <4AD1F6D7-927A-4E1F-9B55-8FB9464C1E11@thewholeperson.org> <002801cd27a6$2d73a360$885aea20$@com> Message-ID: <002d01cd27a8$1fadb840$5f0928c0$@gmail.com> Hi Ray and all. If we look equally at Para Transit, buses are now adapted for people in wheelchairs and many of them still take Para Transit. It's not only blind people. KEN -----Original Message----- From: transportation-bounces at acb.org [mailto:transportation-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Ray Campbell Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 7:25 AM To: 'Transportation is an open list for people who want to talk about transportation issues in their communities, and to share important transportation issues that require action.' Subject: Re: [transportation] Following the Money trail Hi Sheila: I tend to strongly agree with you. While part of me says, hey, however someone gets from point A to point B, it's important that they do it, people need to realize transit systems all over the country are spending huge amounts of money on Paratransit. I think a lot of people do not realize that the fare they pay for Paratransit only covers maybe 10 to 15 percent of the actual trip cost. I think the last Chicago area numbers I heard were that the true cost of each Paratransit trip is about $21 or $22; the passenger's fare is $3. There are NFB folks in Chicago who call the Chicago Lighthouse the biggest parking lot for Paratransit vehicles there is. Those who are blind with no other disabilities, good, safe sidewalks to transit stops and safe intersections should be steered towards main line transit. One of my friends who recently moved to a large city with a pretty good transit system takes Paratransit everywhere and has no quams about doing it. She even told me, as tired as my brain is by the end of my work day, why should I have to worry about taking busses and crossing streets? While I think we who are blind should be able to make the same living choices others do, we must also accept responsibility for those choices. While we live in a suburb, it's only about a half hour to 45 minute walk to essentials like grocery and drug stores, banking and other things with really only one bad street crossing. While I know some people cannot walk that far, or have legitimate issues crossing wide, busy streets for those of us who can, it's great, easy exercise. Thanks, Ray Campbell ray1530 at wowway.com Skype Name: ray650315 Check out my blog at farmers-boy.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/packerbackerray Follow me on FaceBook: www.facebook.com/packerbackerray _______________________________________________ transportation mailing list transportation at acb.org http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation From ray1530 at wowway.com Tue May 1 10:44:29 2012 From: ray1530 at wowway.com (Ray Campbell) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 09:44:29 -0500 Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail In-Reply-To: <002401cd27a7$36400780$a2c01680$@gmail.com> References: <008501cd26ef$8520f020$8f62d060$@com> <20120430181210.94BFA6AAEAE@mail2.acb.org> <15F55D1CB7DE4EF2A46B0F69F79C49AB@Donna> <032f01cd273f$58242880$086c7980$@com>, <75FDA860-30F3-4E53-A11F-E8DB50DFD886@wowway.com> <4AD1F6D7-927A-4E1F-9B55-8FB9464C1E11@thewholeperson.org> <002401cd27a7$36400780$a2c01680$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000301cd27a8$ea247820$be6d6860$@com> Hi Ken: I've gone round and round with our regional authority who certifies people for Paratransit that they need to have certified O & M instructors not only for providing travel training, but also for conducting evaluations of a blind person's travel ability to determine Paratransit eligibility. While they've now contracted with a blindness agency for travel training, they still use a PAS agency to conduct evaluations. The evaluation I'm talking about is part of our certification process where you have to go in for an interview after you fill out a Paratransit application. The interview can include an evaluation where they have you step on or off a curb, climb up and down mock-up bus steps and have you walk a block and cross a street. Thanks, Ray Campbell ray1530 at wowway.com Skype Name: ray650315 Check out my blog at farmers-boy.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/packerbackerray Follow me on FaceBook: www.facebook.com/packerbackerray From plipovsky at cfl.rr.com Tue May 1 11:53:03 2012 From: plipovsky at cfl.rr.com (Patricia A. Lipovsky) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 11:53:03 -0400 Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail References: <008501cd26ef$8520f020$8f62d060$@com> <20120430181210.94BFA6AAEAE@mail2.acb.org> <15F55D1CB7DE4EF2A46B0F69F79C49AB@Donna> <032f01cd273f$58242880$086c7980$@com>, <75FDA860-30F3-4E53-A11F-E8DB50DFD886@wowway.com><4AD1F6D7-927A-4E1F-9B55-8FB9464C1E11@thewholeperson.org> <002401cd27a7$36400780$a2c01680$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0C042FF53B534BFF90215A95E9F848C2@dellpc> Hi ken. You have some valid points. Every situation is different. I guess what it boils down to is individualism. Some folks are not comfortable taking the fixed route bus for whatever reason, where others are. I personally try to take it whenever I can, but if it is going to take me two or three hours to reach my destination on a regular bus, when I can get there in fifteen minutes on paratransit, then you better believe I'm taking paratransit. Also, Although I feel that if a person can take the fixed route, they should try to do that as often as they can. In some instances though, depending on where you live, if it is determined that you can take the fixed route, they will not qualify you for the para transit at all. This of course, then causes some folks to misrepresent themselves when filling out the application, for fear that they will not be allowed to ride the para transit when it is not conducive for them to take the fixed route. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Metz" To: "'Transportation is an open list for people who want to talkabout transportation issues in their communities,and to share important transportation issues that require action.'" Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [transportation] Following the Money trail > Hi Sheila. > > You have some great points because a lot of us used to still travel before > Para Transit Ever existed. However, as a lot of us have gotten older, > there > are secondary difficulties to traveling be it Arthritis, Diabetes and > related neuropathy, and a lack of studies on long term effects of persons > with RLF/ROP. There have been hearing changes in many people, and just > overall situations that were not predictable in the early years of a blind > person traveling. We also didn't have quiet cars mixed in with noisy cars > and trucks on the same level as we do today. We had 1/2 to 1/3 the numbers > of people traveling by automobile in this country when many of us were > younger. A lot of places didn't have right turns on red lights when many > of > us were growing up. > > I guess that what I'm saying is that there have been numerous differences > over a 50 plus year period of time. It was easier to hear a horse than a > quiet car. > > One last thing is that these Para Transit agencies have travel trainers, > but > not O&M specialists. They don't have nearly the same qualifications as an > O&M instructor. > > > Ken Metz > > -----Original Message----- > From: transportation-bounces at acb.org > [mailto:transportation-bounces at acb.org] > On Behalf Of Sheila Styron > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 6:40 AM > To: Transportation is an open list for people who want to talk about > transportation issues in their communities, and to share important > transportation issues that require action. > Cc: Transportation is an open list for people who want to talk about > transportation issues in their communities, and to share important > transportation issues that require action. > Subject: Re: [transportation] Following the Money trail > > One of my pet peeves is able bodied blind people totally relying on > paratransit with no obvious effort having gone into planning where they > live > in terms of optimizing local transportation options and proximity to > essentials like grocery shopping. Then they complain about not being able > to > get anywhere unless someone gives them a ride. I know too many people who > can't go anywhere without paratransit, having forgotten how to cross > streets > and plan bus trips. If more people demanded more and better public > transportation, which could be partially accomplished by using it and > increasing demand, we would be helping the entire system in several ways. > Kansas City has just set up a travel training program through KCATA, which > sadly, I fear people will not take advantage of. I can practically count > the > people who are blind on one hand who actually regularly take buses. Where > are they getting these messages? Why would blind pedestrians not choose > more independent travel? Paratransit > has been both a blessing and a curse. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 30, 2012, at 9:47 PM, "Ray Campbell" wrote: > > Hi Darla and All: > > If what I've heard is true it makes me very sad. I've heard that in some > places, Orientation and Mobility instructors actually encourage people who > are blind to sign up for and take paratransit. Boy, my O and M > instructors > would have had none of that if we had paratransit when I was being > trained. > > I agree that using fixed route is preferrable with the flexibility you > have. > However, it is also very true about the secondary disability issues. > > Ray Campbell > ray1530 at wowway.com > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 30, 2012, at 9:08 PM, "Darla Rogers" > wrote: > >> Donna, >> >> Everything you said is so very right on; I know we should probably >> have moved further into the city, but, in areas where we would have >> wanted to live, houses were actually more expensive, so we chose our >> suburb and love it here and we do have businesses we can walk to, and, >> at one time, we had a Flex Bus that used to take us quite a few places >> for much cheaper than Share-a-Fare--we used it, at first and then were >> told they don't go East of Antioch anymore because the nursing home >> on the corner didn't use it. We hear we're getting it back but never >> were > able to learn of its exact route. >> >> Also, information on KCATA's site isn't at all accessible, so I feel >> that is a barrier to using the fixed route system, and any >> improvements made, go to areas that, IMO are already well-served even >> though we live in the Northland (North of the Missouri River) which is >> the fastest-growing area of the metropolitan area and, in fact, grew >> by 10 percent from the 2000 census to the 2010 census, and I suspect it >> is > growing even faster than that. >> >> We have just got to put KCATA meetings on our calendar and be there; >> be loud; be assertive; whatever we have to do, but the lack of >> transparency really bothers me. >> >> A driver told me our Share-A- >> Fare is owned by a large French company; they do the driving; I think >> they employ the order takers and KCATA makes up the routes--or so I >> understand after talking to many, many people. >> >> I have lived in cities where I only used public transportation which >> is my preference when I can do so because I have some flexibility in >> going from place t5o place, but a lot of blind people now have >> acquired secondary or even tertiary disabilities which really do >> prevent them from using the fixed route system. >> >> Also, in some areas, it appears training to use the fixed route >> systems is more talk than action; maybe someone who has undergone >> training to use fixed route systems can speak to this. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- > _______________________________________________ > transportation mailing list > transportation at acb.org > http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation > _______________________________________________ > transportation mailing list > transportation at acb.org > http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation > > _______________________________________________ > transportation mailing list > transportation at acb.org > http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2411/4971 - Release Date: 05/01/12 > From kenmetz1946 at gmail.com Tue May 1 14:07:04 2012 From: kenmetz1946 at gmail.com (Ken Metz) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 11:07:04 -0700 Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail In-Reply-To: <000301cd27a8$ea247820$be6d6860$@com> References: <008501cd26ef$8520f020$8f62d060$@com> <20120430181210.94BFA6AAEAE@mail2.acb.org> <15F55D1CB7DE4EF2A46B0F69F79C49AB@Donna> <032f01cd273f$58242880$086c7980$@com>, <75FDA860-30F3-4E53-A11F-E8DB50DFD886@wowway.com> <4AD1F6D7-927A-4E1F-9B55-8FB9464C1E11@thewholeperson.org> <002401cd27a7$36400780$a2c01680$@gmail.com> <000301cd27a8$ea247820$be6d6860$@com> Message-ID: <006601cd27c5$38c13880$aa43a980$@gmail.com> Hi Ray. Out in the Los Angeles area, they have folks doing these evaluations who have no real training other than on-the-job for the purpose of conducting such interviews. The travel trainers to teach fixed bus routes are not O&M qualified and other than learning from blind riders, they wouldn't even know proper cane technique or realize what it might take to use cardinal directions. KEN -----Original Message----- From: transportation-bounces at acb.org [mailto:transportation-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Ray Campbell Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 7:44 AM To: 'Transportation is an open list for people who want to talk about transportation issues in their communities, and to share important transportation issues that require action.' Subject: Re: [transportation] Following the Money trail Hi Ken: I've gone round and round with our regional authority who certifies people for Paratransit that they need to have certified O & M instructors not only for providing travel training, but also for conducting evaluations of a blind person's travel ability to determine Paratransit eligibility. While they've now contracted with a blindness agency for travel training, they still use a PAS agency to conduct evaluations. The evaluation I'm talking about is part of our certification process where you have to go in for an interview after you fill out a Paratransit application. The interview can include an evaluation where they have you step on or off a curb, climb up and down mock-up bus steps and have you walk a block and cross a street. Thanks, Ray Campbell ray1530 at wowway.com Skype Name: ray650315 Check out my blog at farmers-boy.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/packerbackerray Follow me on FaceBook: www.facebook.com/packerbackerray _______________________________________________ transportation mailing list transportation at acb.org http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation From kenmetz1946 at gmail.com Tue May 1 14:24:20 2012 From: kenmetz1946 at gmail.com (Ken Metz) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 11:24:20 -0700 Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail In-Reply-To: <0C042FF53B534BFF90215A95E9F848C2@dellpc> References: <008501cd26ef$8520f020$8f62d060$@com> <20120430181210.94BFA6AAEAE@mail2.acb.org> <15F55D1CB7DE4EF2A46B0F69F79C49AB@Donna> <032f01cd273f$58242880$086c7980$@com>, <75FDA860-30F3-4E53-A11F-E8DB50DFD886@wowway.com><4AD1F6D7-927A-4E1F-9B55-8FB9464C1E11@thewholeperson.org> <002401cd27a7$36400780$a2c01680$@gmail.com> <0C042FF53B534BFF90215A95E9F848C2@dellpc> Message-ID: <006d01cd27c7$a12082d0$e3618870$@gmail.com> Hi Patricia. While some of us, when younger, commuted by fixed route transportation even if it took one to two hours just to have a job, others didn't and stayed home and collected SSI or whatever. I'm not putting any of those folks down, but I, and perhaps I'm wrong, believe that was one of the reasons unemployment amongst persons who are blind has always remained so high. Even when I was a Rehab Counselor for the Blind, many of my clients didn't want to relocate to get a job, let alone commute two to four hours a day round trip. Ken Metz -----Original Message----- From: transportation-bounces at acb.org [mailto:transportation-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Patricia A. Lipovsky Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 8:53 AM To: Transportation is an open list for people who want to talk abouttransportation issues in their communities, and to share important transportation issues that require action. Subject: Re: [transportation] Following the Money trail Hi ken. You have some valid points. Every situation is different. I guess what it boils down to is individualism. Some folks are not comfortable taking the fixed route bus for whatever reason, where others are. I personally try to take it whenever I can, but if it is going to take me two or three hours to reach my destination on a regular bus, when I can get there in fifteen minutes on paratransit, then you better believe I'm taking paratransit. Also, Although I feel that if a person can take the fixed route, they should try to do that as often as they can. In some instances though, depending on where you live, if it is determined that you can take the fixed route, they will not qualify you for the para transit at all. This of course, then causes some folks to misrepresent themselves when filling out the application, for fear that they will not be allowed to ride the para transit when it is not conducive for them to take the fixed route. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Metz" To: "'Transportation is an open list for people who want to talkabout transportation issues in their communities,and to share important transportation issues that require action.'" Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [transportation] Following the Money trail > Hi Sheila. > > You have some great points because a lot of us used to still travel > before Para Transit Ever existed. However, as a lot of us have gotten > older, there are secondary difficulties to traveling be it Arthritis, > Diabetes and related neuropathy, and a lack of studies on long term > effects of persons with RLF/ROP. There have been hearing changes in > many people, and just overall situations that were not predictable in > the early years of a blind person traveling. We also didn't have quiet > cars mixed in with noisy cars and trucks on the same level as we do > today. We had 1/2 to 1/3 the numbers of people traveling by automobile > in this country when many of us were younger. A lot of places didn't > have right turns on red lights when many of us were growing up. > > I guess that what I'm saying is that there have been numerous > differences over a 50 plus year period of time. It was easier to hear > a horse than a quiet car. > > One last thing is that these Para Transit agencies have travel > trainers, but not O&M specialists. They don't have nearly the same > qualifications as an O&M instructor. > > > Ken Metz > > -----Original Message----- > From: transportation-bounces at acb.org > [mailto:transportation-bounces at acb.org] > On Behalf Of Sheila Styron > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 6:40 AM > To: Transportation is an open list for people who want to talk about > transportation issues in their communities, and to share important > transportation issues that require action. > Cc: Transportation is an open list for people who want to talk about > transportation issues in their communities, and to share important > transportation issues that require action. > Subject: Re: [transportation] Following the Money trail > > One of my pet peeves is able bodied blind people totally relying on > paratransit with no obvious effort having gone into planning where > they live in terms of optimizing local transportation options and > proximity to essentials like grocery shopping. Then they complain > about not being able to get anywhere unless someone gives them a ride. > I know too many people who can't go anywhere without paratransit, > having forgotten how to cross streets and plan bus trips. If more > people demanded more and better public transportation, which could be > partially accomplished by using it and increasing demand, we would be > helping the entire system in several ways. > Kansas City has just set up a travel training program through KCATA, > which sadly, I fear people will not take advantage of. I can > practically count the people who are blind on one hand who actually > regularly take buses. Where are they getting these messages? Why would > blind pedestrians not choose more independent travel? Paratransit > has been both a blessing and a curse. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 30, 2012, at 9:47 PM, "Ray Campbell" wrote: > > Hi Darla and All: > > If what I've heard is true it makes me very sad. I've heard that in > some places, Orientation and Mobility instructors actually encourage > people who are blind to sign up for and take paratransit. Boy, my O > and M instructors would have had none of that if we had paratransit > when I was being trained. > > I agree that using fixed route is preferrable with the flexibility you > have. > However, it is also very true about the secondary disability issues. > > Ray Campbell > ray1530 at wowway.com > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 30, 2012, at 9:08 PM, "Darla Rogers" > wrote: > >> Donna, >> >> Everything you said is so very right on; I know we should probably >> have moved further into the city, but, in areas where we would have >> wanted to live, houses were actually more expensive, so we chose our >> suburb and love it here and we do have businesses we can walk to, >> and, at one time, we had a Flex Bus that used to take us quite a few >> places for much cheaper than Share-a-Fare--we used it, at first and >> then were told they don't go East of Antioch anymore because the >> nursing home on the corner didn't use it. We hear we're getting it >> back but never were > able to learn of its exact route. >> >> Also, information on KCATA's site isn't at all accessible, so I feel >> that is a barrier to using the fixed route system, and any >> improvements made, go to areas that, IMO are already well-served even >> though we live in the Northland (North of the Missouri River) which >> is the fastest-growing area of the metropolitan area and, in fact, >> grew by 10 percent from the 2000 census to the 2010 census, and I >> suspect it is > growing even faster than that. >> >> We have just got to put KCATA meetings on our calendar and be there; >> be loud; be assertive; whatever we have to do, but the lack of >> transparency really bothers me. >> >> A driver told me our Share-A- >> Fare is owned by a large French company; they do the driving; I think >> they employ the order takers and KCATA makes up the routes--or so I >> understand after talking to many, many people. >> >> I have lived in cities where I only used public transportation which >> is my preference when I can do so because I have some flexibility in >> going from place t5o place, but a lot of blind people now have >> acquired secondary or even tertiary disabilities which really do >> prevent them from using the fixed route system. >> >> Also, in some areas, it appears training to use the fixed route >> systems is more talk than action; maybe someone who has undergone >> training to use fixed route systems can speak to this. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- > _______________________________________________ > transportation mailing list > transportation at acb.org > http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation > _______________________________________________ > transportation mailing list > transportation at acb.org > http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation > > _______________________________________________ > transportation mailing list > transportation at acb.org > http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2411/4971 - Release Date: > 05/01/12 > _______________________________________________ transportation mailing list transportation at acb.org http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation From SStyron at thewholeperson.org Tue May 1 15:19:53 2012 From: SStyron at thewholeperson.org (Sheila Styron) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 19:19:53 +0000 Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail In-Reply-To: <055901cd27a2$98a4e120$c9eea360$@com> References: <008501cd26ef$8520f020$8f62d060$@com> <20120430181210.94BFA6AAEAE@mail2.acb.org> <15F55D1CB7DE4EF2A46B0F69F79C49AB@Donna> <032f01cd273f$58242880$086c7980$@com>, <75FDA860-30F3-4E53-A11F-E8DB50DFD886@wowway.com> <4AD1F6D7-927A-4E1F-9B55-8FB9464C1E11@thewholeperson.org>, <055901cd27a2$98a4e120$c9eea360$@com> Message-ID: <2054586A-EC80-4400-9A99-ED9A1727AB01@thewholeperson.org> Darla, I surely hope you didn't think I was criticizing your choice to live north of the river. I know you did investigate at least before choosing the environment you did. However, what changes transportationally happen up there will undoubtedly take many years, particularly with so few dollars available. Sent from my iPhone On May 1, 2012, at 9:00 AM, "Darla Rogers" wrote: Very true, Sheila, and I'm checking into this training, but it is still my hope that the Northland will be recognized for the growing area it is--and has been--so we can get more places independently. -----Original Message----- From: transportation-bounces at acb.org [mailto:transportation-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Sheila Styron Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 8:40 AM To: Transportation is an open list for people who want to talk abouttransportation issues in their communities, and to share importanttransportation issues that require action. Cc: Transportation is an open list for people who want to talk abouttransportation issues in their communities, and to share important transportation issues that require action. Subject: Re: [transportation] Following the Money trail One of my pet peeves is able bodied blind people totally relying on paratransit with no obvious effort having gone into planning where they live in terms of optimizing local transportation options and proximity to essentials like grocery shopping. Then they complain about not being able to get anywhere unless someone gives them a ride. I know too many people who can't go anywhere without paratransit, having forgotten how to cross streets and plan bus trips. If more people demanded more and better public transportation, which could be partially accomplished by using it and increasing demand, we would be helping the entire system in several ways. Kansas City has just set up a travel training program through KCATA, which sadly, I fear people will not take advantage of. I can practically count the people who are blind on one hand who actually regularly take buses. Where are they getting these messages? Why would blind pedestrians not choose more independent travel? Paratransit has been both a blessing and a curse. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 30, 2012, at 9:47 PM, "Ray Campbell" wrote: Hi Darla and All: If what I've heard is true it makes me very sad. I've heard that in some places, Orientation and Mobility instructors actually encourage people who are blind to sign up for and take paratransit. Boy, my O and M instructors would have had none of that if we had paratransit when I was being trained. I agree that using fixed route is preferrable with the flexibility you have. However, it is also very true about the secondary disability issues. Ray Campbell ray1530 at wowway.com Sent from my iPhone On Apr 30, 2012, at 9:08 PM, "Darla Rogers" wrote: > Donna, > > Everything you said is so very right on; I know we should probably > have moved further into the city, but, in areas where we would have > wanted to live, houses were actually more expensive, so we chose our > suburb and love it here and we do have businesses we can walk to, and, > at one time, we had a Flex Bus that used to take us quite a few places > for much cheaper than Share-a-Fare--we used it, at first and then were > told they don't go East of Antioch anymore because the nursing home > on the corner didn't use it. We hear we're getting it back but never were able to learn of its exact route. > > Also, information on KCATA's site isn't at all accessible, so I feel > that is a barrier to using the fixed route system, and any > improvements made, go to areas that, IMO are already well-served even > though we live in the Northland (North of the Missouri River) which is > the fastest-growing area of the metropolitan area and, in fact, grew > by 10 percent from the 2000 census to the 2010 census, and I suspect it is growing even faster than that. > > We have just got to put KCATA meetings on our calendar and be there; > be loud; be assertive; whatever we have to do, but the lack of > transparency really bothers me. > > A driver told me our Share-A- > Fare is owned by a large French company; they do the driving; I think > they employ the order takers and KCATA makes up the routes--or so I > understand after talking to many, many people. > > I have lived in cities where I only used public transportation which > is my preference when I can do so because I have some flexibility in > going from place t5o place, but a lot of blind people now have > acquired secondary or even tertiary disabilities which really do > prevent them from using the fixed route system. > > Also, in some areas, it appears training to use the fixed route > systems is more talk than action; maybe someone who has undergone > training to use fixed route systems can speak to this. > > > > -----Original Message----- _______________________________________________ transportation mailing list transportation at acb.org http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation _______________________________________________ transportation mailing list transportation at acb.org http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation _______________________________________________ transportation mailing list transportation at acb.org http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation From djrogers0628 at gmail.com Tue May 1 15:58:12 2012 From: djrogers0628 at gmail.com (Darla Rogers) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 14:58:12 -0500 Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail In-Reply-To: <2054586A-EC80-4400-9A99-ED9A1727AB01@thewholeperson.org> References: <008501cd26ef$8520f020$8f62d060$@com> <20120430181210.94BFA6AAEAE@mail2.acb.org> <15F55D1CB7DE4EF2A46B0F69F79C49AB@Donna> <032f01cd273f$58242880$086c7980$@com>, <75FDA860-30F3-4E53-A11F-E8DB50DFD886@wowway.com> <4AD1F6D7-927A-4E1F-9B55-8FB9464C1E11@thewholeperson.org>, <055901cd27a2$98a4e120$c9eea360$@com> <2054586A-EC80-4400-9A99-ED9A1727AB01@thewholeperson.org> Message-ID: <071701cd27d4$bf45dff0$3dd19fd0$@com> I kinda did, but I'm OK with it and am learning as much as I can about what is happening now and in the future; it might be, with some of the changes, I can take the bus in the morning, depending on where employment lands me and Share-a-Fare home at night or vise versa. Darla & Precious Roxy -----Original Message----- From: transportation-bounces at acb.org [mailto:transportation-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Sheila Styron Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 2:20 PM To: Transportation is an open list for people who want to talk abouttransportation issues in their communities, and to share importanttransportation issues that require action. Cc: Transportation is an open list for people who want to talk about transportation issues in their communities, and to share important transportation issues that require action. Subject: Re: [transportation] Following the Money trail Darla, I surely hope you didn't think I was criticizing your choice to live north of the river. I know you did investigate at least before choosing the environment you did. However, what changes transportationally happen up there will undoubtedly take many years, particularly with so few dollars available. Sent from my iPhone On May 1, 2012, at 9:00 AM, "Darla Rogers" wrote: Very true, Sheila, and I'm checking into this training, but it is still my hope that the Northland will be recognized for the growing area it is--and has been--so we can get more places independently. -----Original Message----- From: transportation-bounces at acb.org [mailto:transportation-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Sheila Styron Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 8:40 AM To: Transportation is an open list for people who want to talk abouttransportation issues in their communities, and to share importanttransportation issues that require action. Cc: Transportation is an open list for people who want to talk abouttransportation issues in their communities, and to share important transportation issues that require action. Subject: Re: [transportation] Following the Money trail One of my pet peeves is able bodied blind people totally relying on paratransit with no obvious effort having gone into planning where they live in terms of optimizing local transportation options and proximity to essentials like grocery shopping. Then they complain about not being able to get anywhere unless someone gives them a ride. I know too many people who can't go anywhere without paratransit, having forgotten how to cross streets and plan bus trips. If more people demanded more and better public transportation, which could be partially accomplished by using it and increasing demand, we would be helping the entire system in several ways. Kansas City has just set up a travel training program through KCATA, which sadly, I fear people will not take advantage of. I can practically count the people who are blind on one hand who actually regularly take buses. Where are they getting these messages? Why would blind pedestrians not choose more independent travel? Paratransit has been both a blessing and a curse. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 30, 2012, at 9:47 PM, "Ray Campbell" wrote: Hi Darla and All: If what I've heard is true it makes me very sad. I've heard that in some places, Orientation and Mobility instructors actually encourage people who are blind to sign up for and take paratransit. Boy, my O and M instructors would have had none of that if we had paratransit when I was being trained. I agree that using fixed route is preferrable with the flexibility you have. However, it is also very true about the secondary disability issues. Ray Campbell ray1530 at wowway.com Sent from my iPhone On Apr 30, 2012, at 9:08 PM, "Darla Rogers" wrote: > Donna, > > Everything you said is so very right on; I know we should probably > have moved further into the city, but, in areas where we would have > wanted to live, houses were actually more expensive, so we chose our > suburb and love it here and we do have businesses we can walk to, and, > at one time, we had a Flex Bus that used to take us quite a few places > for much cheaper than Share-a-Fare--we used it, at first and then were > told they don't go East of Antioch anymore because the nursing home > on the corner didn't use it. We hear we're getting it back but never > were able to learn of its exact route. > > Also, information on KCATA's site isn't at all accessible, so I feel > that is a barrier to using the fixed route system, and any > improvements made, go to areas that, IMO are already well-served even > though we live in the Northland (North of the Missouri River) which is > the fastest-growing area of the metropolitan area and, in fact, grew > by 10 percent from the 2000 census to the 2010 census, and I suspect > it is growing even faster than that. > > We have just got to put KCATA meetings on our calendar and be there; > be loud; be assertive; whatever we have to do, but the lack of > transparency really bothers me. > > A driver told me our Share-A- > Fare is owned by a large French company; they do the driving; I think > they employ the order takers and KCATA makes up the routes--or so I > understand after talking to many, many people. > > I have lived in cities where I only used public transportation which > is my preference when I can do so because I have some flexibility in > going from place t5o place, but a lot of blind people now have > acquired secondary or even tertiary disabilities which really do > prevent them from using the fixed route system. > > Also, in some areas, it appears training to use the fixed route > systems is more talk than action; maybe someone who has undergone > training to use fixed route systems can speak to this. > > > > -----Original Message----- _______________________________________________ transportation mailing list transportation at acb.org http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation _______________________________________________ transportation mailing list transportation at acb.org http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation _______________________________________________ transportation mailing list transportation at acb.org http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation _______________________________________________ transportation mailing list transportation at acb.org http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation From kathybrock1 at sbcglobal.net Wed May 2 07:54:12 2012 From: kathybrock1 at sbcglobal.net (Kathy Brockman) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 06:54:12 -0500 Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail Message-ID: <007701cd285a$4b49ae20$aca4e54c@delleb163c039f> Hello Ken, You are right about older people experiencing other health issues. During the day I take the bus and do have usable vision. At night I'll either get a ride or take a cab (which is covered here by our Transit Plus program up to $14 fare). The places I go are within that limit so I don't use the more expensive paratransit vans. I'm in my 60's and notice that drivers don't pay as much attention as they did years ago. I know some able-bodied blind people in my age group who don't do buses anymore for that reason. I've told people that if I lost my remaining vision I would not take buses alone. I'm a two-time cancer survivor so have enough medical issues without adding injuries. At night I'll do cabs as I'm really tired and can get home sooner as I need a lot of rest. So we all have different issues. But I agree there are people who could use buses but don't do so. Kathy Brockman, Milwaukee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kenmetz1946 at gmail.com Wed May 2 09:56:58 2012 From: kenmetz1946 at gmail.com (Ken Metz) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 06:56:58 -0700 Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail In-Reply-To: <007701cd285a$4b49ae20$aca4e54c@delleb163c039f> References: <007701cd285a$4b49ae20$aca4e54c@delleb163c039f> Message-ID: <005501cd286b$7191ba80$54b52f80$@gmail.com> Hi Kathy. This is off list. Some folks act as though they are super-human but would never admit it. I did a lot of things when I was younger that I wouldn't do today, but I have nothing to really prove to anyone or myself any more. By the way, do you know Paulette Andre in Milwaukee? She and I went to grade school together in Chicago, were in touch, and I lost her phone number and email when my computer crashed a couple of years ago. Take care. Ken Metz Chatsworth, CA in the Los Angeles area From: transportation-bounces at acb.org [mailto:transportation-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Kathy Brockman Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 4:54 AM To: Trans ACB List Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail Hello Ken, You are right about older people experiencing other health issues. During the day I take the bus and do have usable vision. At night I'll either get a ride or take a cab (which is covered here by our Transit Plus program up to $14 fare). The places I go are within that limit so I don't use the more expensive paratransit vans. I'm in my 60's and notice that drivers don't pay as much attention as they did years ago. I know some able-bodied blind people in my age group who don't do buses anymore for that reason. I've told people that if I lost my remaining vision I would not take buses alone. I'm a two-time cancer survivor so have enough medical issues without adding injuries. At night I'll do cabs as I'm really tired and can get home sooner as I need a lot of rest. So we all have different issues. But I agree there are people who could use buses but don't do so. Kathy Brockman, Milwaukee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SStyron at thewholeperson.org Wed May 2 10:31:01 2012 From: SStyron at thewholeperson.org (Sheila Styron) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 14:31:01 +0000 Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail In-Reply-To: <007701cd285a$4b49ae20$aca4e54c@delleb163c039f> References: <007701cd285a$4b49ae20$aca4e54c@delleb163c039f> Message-ID: <0127DF2F25E78A42A516CF915549D0B9013A4266@TWPEXCHANGE2010.thewholeperson.net> I appreciate hearing everyone's perspectives on this important issue. Another concern is that we are not fighting hard enough for more and better public transit and safer more accessible streets, because for one reason or another more segments of our group are not choosing these options. I guess it's just human nature to fight hardest for one's personal preferences, and it makes me sad when I do not see others with disabilities at KCATA meetings or hardly anyone at Share-A-Fare meetings either for that matter. I found paratransit unreliable in LA when I lived there and the same here. I feel like a third class citizen when I call them and reservationists are less professional than when I call Supershuttle or a cab company. I called for a ride a few weeks ago and was informed my eligibility had lapsed, and I asked them how I was supposed to know this. I was informed that it was on the back of my card which nobody ever asks to see in Kansas City and which of course is not accessible. They could tell I hadn't used the service since November and said I could reserve rides until my new application which they said would be sent was accepted or denied. That application hasn't come in a month. If I were wealthy, I would never even dream of trying to get reinstated. The fare here is $3, and the actual trip cost is $40. So as you said, Ray, paratransit is extremely expensive. I would so prefer to see all those resources used to create more usable transportation for all. Paratransit sort of reminds me of when I used to have to take the weirdo bus to school when I was growing up and trying so hard to fit in. thank you for listening, and I know my time is up, Dr. Sheila Styron, Public Policy Coordinator The Whole Person 3420 Broadway Suite 105 Kansas City, MO 64111 Work: 816.561.0304 Mobile: 816.896.6552 Fax: 816.753.8163 E-mail: sstyron at thewholeperson.org ________________________________ From: transportation-bounces at acb.org [mailto:transportation-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Kathy Brockman Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 6:54 AM To: Trans ACB List Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail Hello Ken, You are right about older people experiencing other health issues. During the day I take the bus and do have usable vision. At night I'll either get a ride or take a cab (which is covered here by our Transit Plus program up to $14 fare). The places I go are within that limit so I don't use the more expensive paratransit vans. I'm in my 60's and notice that drivers don't pay as much attention as they did years ago. I know some able-bodied blind people in my age group who don't do buses anymore for that reason. I've told people that if I lost my remaining vision I would not take buses alone. I'm a two-time cancer survivor so have enough medical issues without adding injuries. At night I'll do cabs as I'm really tired and can get home sooner as I need a lot of rest. So we all have different issues. But I agree there are people who could use buses but don't do so. Kathy Brockman, Milwaukee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray1530 at wowway.com Wed May 2 11:16:37 2012 From: ray1530 at wowway.com (Ray Campbell) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 10:16:37 -0500 Subject: [transportation] What Should Transportation Priorities Be? In-Reply-To: <0127DF2F25E78A42A516CF915549D0B9013A4266@TWPEXCHANGE2010.thewholeperson.net> References: <007701cd285a$4b49ae20$aca4e54c@delleb163c039f> <0127DF2F25E78A42A516CF915549D0B9013A4266@TWPEXCHANGE2010.thewholeperson.net> Message-ID: <8457FA77-8D4D-418C-B893-E920A4F0B9CF@wowway.com> Hi Sheila and all: I've changed the subject to better fit the discussion. This issue of what our priorities should be for transportation is interesting. While I do not quarrel at all with ACB's advocacy for accessible pedestrian signals, I feel it needs to be coupled with advocacy for more and better maintained sidewalks, better driver education and other things to make the overall pedestrian experience safer. If I can't get to the intersection with the accessible signal safely, what's the point of having the signal? While we should work to advocate for better paratransit for those who need it, it is just as, if not more important to advocate for more and better public transit. After all, following the strict ADA guidelines, if an area doesn't have public transit paratransit in that area is not required to be provided. We should not lose focus on advocating for safer transit stops, more consistent stop announcements and accessible schedules. If we don't, public transit will become something we are prevented from using. For example, there was a situation in Milwaukee recently where a shopping mall wanted to ban busses from their property, making it more difficult for people who need to use them to get to the mall. After strong, negative publicity, they backed off. Kathy, I'm talking about the Southridge situation. As far as there being more people at meetings, my only question is, how well are they publicized? If people don't know about the meetings, they can't be there. That doesn't mean they will, and we need to encourage people to take opportunities to address their concerns to transit officials at every opportunity. Advocacy with local leaders and state legislators is also important. Finally, alligning ourselves with other groups interested in better transit, including unions representing drivers can help. Just some random thoughts running around inside this head this morning. I don't have all the answers and don't believe I'm super human at all. Bottom line is resources for transit are limited and as advocates we need to work to see they are used to provide high quality transit service for all who need it. Ray Campbell ray1530 at wowway.com From alice.ritchhart at comcast.net Wed May 2 11:50:16 2012 From: alice.ritchhart at comcast.net (Alice Ritchhart) Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 11:50:16 -0400 Subject: [transportation] What Should Transportation Priorities Be? In-Reply-To: <8457FA77-8D4D-418C-B893-E920A4F0B9CF@wowway.com> References: <007701cd285a$4b49ae20$aca4e54c@delleb163c039f> <0127DF2F25E78A42A516CF915549D0B9013A4266@TWPEXCHANGE2010.thewholeperson.net> <8457FA77-8D4D-418C-B893-E920A4F0B9CF@wowway.com> Message-ID: <20120502155514.4CFB76AAA79@mail2.acb.org> Good points. As for knowing about meetings you're right often any public hearings are only placed in the local paper which I don't have access to so often don't know about them till after the fact. So one of the things I have advocated for is to have them done on the radio and tv as well. Also my MPO members are better now about sending me an e mail reminder. Alice At 11:16 AM 5/2/2012, you wrote: >Hi Sheila and all: > >I've changed the subject to better fit the discussion. This issue >of what our priorities should be for transportation is >interesting. While I do not quarrel at all with ACB's advocacy for >accessible pedestrian signals, I feel it needs to be coupled with >advocacy for more and better maintained sidewalks, better driver >education and other things to make the overall pedestrian experience >safer. If I can't get to the intersection with the accessible >signal safely, what's the point of having the signal? > >While we should work to advocate for better paratransit for those >who need it, it is just as, if not more important to advocate for >more and better public transit. After all, following the strict ADA >guidelines, if an area doesn't have public transit paratransit in >that area is not required to be provided. We should not lose focus >on advocating for safer transit stops, more consistent stop >announcements and accessible schedules. If we don't, public transit >will become something we are prevented from using. For example, >there was a situation in Milwaukee recently where a shopping mall >wanted to ban busses from their property, making it more difficult >for people who need to use them to get to the mall. After strong, >negative publicity, they backed off. Kathy, I'm talking about the >Southridge situation. > >As far as there being more people at meetings, my only question is, >how well are they publicized? If people don't know about the >meetings, they can't be there. That doesn't mean they will, and we >need to encourage people to take opportunities to address their >concerns to transit officials at every opportunity. Advocacy with >local leaders and state legislators is also important. Finally, >alligning ourselves with other groups interested in better transit, >including unions representing drivers can help. > >Just some random thoughts running around inside this head this >morning. I don't have all the answers and don't believe I'm super >human at all. Bottom line is resources for transit are limited and >as advocates we need to work to see they are used to provide high >quality transit service for all who need it. > >Ray Campbell >ray1530 at wowway.com > > >_______________________________________________ >transportation mailing list >transportation at acb.org >http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation From djrogers0628 at gmail.com Wed May 2 13:44:31 2012 From: djrogers0628 at gmail.com (Darla Rogers) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 12:44:31 -0500 Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail In-Reply-To: <0127DF2F25E78A42A516CF915549D0B9013A4266@TWPEXCHANGE2010.thewholeperson.net> References: <007701cd285a$4b49ae20$aca4e54c@delleb163c039f> <0127DF2F25E78A42A516CF915549D0B9013A4266@TWPEXCHANGE2010.thewholeperson.net> Message-ID: <0bcd01cd288b$3c2d0140$b48703c0$@com> I couldn't agree more, Sheila; I'd much rather see more busses running later or light rail--though I think KC has waited too long to afford such in our lifetime--as I prefer the independence and flexibility of public transportation for sure, and it costs less, too. Darla -----Original Message----- From: transportation-bounces at acb.org [mailto:transportation-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Sheila Styron Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 9:31 AM To: 'Transportation is an open list for people who want to talk about transportation issues in their communities, and to share important transportation issues that require action.' Subject: Re: [transportation] Following the Money trail I appreciate hearing everyone's perspectives on this important issue. Another concern is that we are not fighting hard enough for more and better public transit and safer more accessible streets, because for one reason or another more segments of our group are not choosing these options. I guess it's just human nature to fight hardest for one's personal preferences, and it makes me sad when I do not see others with disabilities at KCATA meetings or hardly anyone at Share-A-Fare meetings either for that matter. I found paratransit unreliable in LA when I lived there and the same here. I feel like a third class citizen when I call them and reservationists are less professional than when I call Supershuttle or a cab company. I called for a ride a few weeks ago and was informed my eligibility had lapsed, and I asked them how I was supposed to know this. I was informed that it was on the back of my card which nobody ever asks to see in Kansas City and which of course is not accessible. They could tell I hadn't used the service since November and said I could reserve rides until my new application which they said would be sent was accepted or denied. That application hasn't come in a month. If I were wealthy, I would never even dream of trying to get reinstated. The fare here is $3, and the actual trip cost is $40. So as you said, Paratransit sort of reminds me of when I used to have to take the weirdo bus to school when I was growing up and trying so hard to fit in. thank you for listening, and I know my time is up, Dr. Sheila Styron, Public Policy Coordinator The Whole Person 3420 Broadway Suite 105 Kansas City, MO 64111 Work: 816.561.0304 Mobile: 816.896.6552 Fax: 816.753.8163 E-mail: sstyron at thewholeperson.org ________________________________ From: transportation-bounces at acb.org [mailto:transportation-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Kathy Brockman Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 6:54 AM To: Trans ACB List Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail Hello Ken, You are right about older people experiencing other health issues. During the day I take the bus and do have usable vision. At night I'll either get a ride or take a cab (which is covered here by our Transit Plus program up to $14 fare). The places I go are within that limit so I don't use the more expensive paratransit vans. I'm in my 60's and notice that drivers don't pay as much attention as they did years ago. I know some able-bodied blind people in my age group who don't do buses anymore for that reason. I've told people that if I lost my remaining vision I would not take buses alone. I'm a two-time cancer survivor so have enough medical issues without adding injuries. At night I'll do cabs as I'm really tired and can get home sooner as I need a lot of rest. So we all have different issues. But I agree there are people who could use buses but don't do so. Kathy Brockman, Milwaukee From djrogers0628 at gmail.com Wed May 2 16:34:56 2012 From: djrogers0628 at gmail.com (Darla Rogers) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 15:34:56 -0500 Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail In-Reply-To: <007701cd285a$4b49ae20$aca4e54c@delleb163c039f> References: <007701cd285a$4b49ae20$aca4e54c@delleb163c039f> Message-ID: <001501cd28a3$0a76f1c0$1f64d540$@com> Dear Kathy, Really; doing what you need to do to make your life work for you is most important, though I do understand some of the points Sheila and Ray are making. I have an old back injury (never diagnosed, but a heavy door fell on me when I was sitting on a bed in a bent position putting shoes on); I have had back issues off and on since then and fractured a vertebra a few years ago when I lived in Florida--not to name some other falls, car accidents, etc.--I just can't stand for long periods of time and my stamina isn't what it once was so walking miles to a bus stop won't work for me. As for the younger folks' whose only disability is blindness, I place the blame on the lack of good orientation and mobility training; I don't know if there aren't enough instructors; too little money to hire them or what, but I can't believe what isn't taught anymore. You keep on keeping on; let's hope you have beat the big C once, actually, twice and for all. Sincere Respect, Darla -----Original Message----- From: transportation-bounces at acb.org [mailto:transportation-bounces at acb.org] On Behalf Of Kathy Brockman Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 6:54 AM To: Trans ACB List Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail Hello Ken, You are right about older people experiencing other health issues. During the day I take the bus and do have usable vision. At night I'll either get a ride or take a cab (which is covered here by our Transit Plus program up to $14 fare). The places I go are within that limit so I don't use the more expensive paratransit vans. I'm in my 60's and notice that drivers don't pay as much attention as they did years ago. I know some able-bodied blind people in my age group who don't do buses anymore for that reason. I've told people that if I lost my remaining vision I would not take buses alone. I'm a two-time cancer survivor so have enough medical issues without adding injuries. At night I'll do cabs as I'm really tired and can get home sooner as I need a lot of rest. So we all have different issues. But I agree there are people who could use buses but don't do so. Kathy Brockman, Milwaukee From ray1530 at wowway.com Wed May 2 19:40:45 2012 From: ray1530 at wowway.com (Ray Campbell) Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 18:40:45 -0500 Subject: [transportation] Article on Enticing More Americans to use Transit Message-ID: <6A94D082-8FED-401F-888A-85F608BC21CA@wowway.com> Hello All: Following is a link to an interesting article about public transit, how to entice more people to use it by raising its "sex appeal." Check this out, it's pretty interesting. The link is: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2012/04/how-make-transit-and-biking-and-walking-sexy/1879/ Ray Campbell ray1530 at wowway.com From alice.ritchhart at comcast.net Thu May 3 07:42:02 2012 From: alice.ritchhart at comcast.net (Alice) Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 07:42:02 -0400 Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail In-Reply-To: <001501cd28a3$0a76f1c0$1f64d540$@com> References: <007701cd285a$4b49ae20$aca4e54c@delleb163c039f> <001501cd28a3$0a76f1c0$1f64d540$@com> Message-ID: <1DF86A80-2679-404A-A5B0-E6A157796130@comcast.net> It is true some blind hfolks will never be able to use anything but para transit but I know too many who could use fixed transit and do't Alize Sent from my iPhone On May 2, 2012, at 4:34 PM, "Darla Rogers" wrote: > Dear Kathy, > > Really; doing what you need to do to make your life work for you is most > important, though I do understand some of the points Sheila and Ray are > making. I have an old back injury (never diagnosed, but a heavy door fell > on me when I was sitting on a bed in a bent position putting shoes on); I > have had back issues off and on since then and fractured a vertebra a few > years ago when I lived in Florida--not to name some other falls, car > accidents, etc.--I > just can't stand for long periods of time and my stamina isn't what it once > was so walking miles to a bus stop won't work for me. > > As for the younger folks' whose only disability is blindness, I place the > blame on the lack of good orientation and mobility training; I don't know if > there aren't enough instructors; too little money to hire them or what, but > I can't believe what isn't taught anymore. > > You keep on keeping on; let's hope you have beat the big C once, actually, > twice and for all. > > Sincere Respect, > Darla > > -----Original Message----- > From: transportation-bounces at acb.org [mailto:transportation-bounces at acb.org] > On Behalf Of Kathy Brockman > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 6:54 AM > To: Trans ACB List > Subject: [transportation] Following the Money trail > > Hello Ken, > You are right about older people experiencing other health issues. During > the day I take the bus and do have usable vision. At night I'll either get a > ride or take a cab (which is covered here by our Transit Plus program up to > $14 fare). The places I go are within that limit so I don't use the more > expensive paratransit vans. > > I'm in my 60's and notice that drivers don't pay as much attention as they > did years ago. I know some able-bodied blind people in my age group who > don't do buses anymore for that reason. I've told people that if I lost my > remaining vision I would not take buses alone. I'm a two-time cancer > survivor so have enough medical issues without adding injuries. At night > I'll do cabs as I'm really tired and can get home sooner as I need a lot of > rest. So we all have different issues. > > But I agree there are people who could use buses but don't do so. > Kathy Brockman, Milwaukee > > _______________________________________________ > transportation mailing list > transportation at acb.org > http://www.acb.org/mailman/listinfo/transportation From ray1530 at wowway.com Fri May 11 13:29:10 2012 From: ray1530 at wowway.com (Ray Campbell) Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 12:29:10 -0500 Subject: [transportation] Washington Post Article, for Public Transit, Recession Still Not Over Message-ID: Hello All: Check out this Washington Post article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/for-public-transit-the-recessions-still-not-over/2012/05/09/gIQAlExYDU_blog.html. This article shows that public transit, while having increased ridership, still faces funding problems. Ray Campbell ray1530 at wowway.com