American Council of the Blind 62nd Annual Conference and Convention
6/20/2023 8:00 PM

CONFIDENTIAL ROUGHLY EDITED REALTIME FILE
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This file was created in real time by a Human Realtime Captioner for the purpose of communication access. It is not a certified legal transcript and may not be entirely verbatim. It is intended for use by the consumer only as notes of the proceedings. A consumer should check with the presenter for any clarification of the presentation.

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[Live Captioner standing by] 
>> Zoom: Recording in progress. 
[Pause]
[Live Captioner standing by] 
[Live Captioner standing by]
>> Like we say at work, Zoom comes out with an update every other week, if there's something you like, wait until next week and it will be gone.
[Cross-talk]
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah, I love I. I love it. 
[Pause]
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  We have about two minutes before we will start. 
[Pause] 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Now is this the same link --.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Tomorrow and Thursday. Your entrance tonight has two more stamps on the ticket. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, good.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah, so you can -- and then for those who come Friday night, that's a different one. But tonight, tomorrow and Thursday, these are all the same... actually.
But you will continue to receive prompting from Zoom, about --
>> Yes, I saw that Zoom is going to send it out every day or something.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Um-hum 
[Pause]
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  All right. We'll begin in about two minutes. 
[Pause]
>> Let me know when you want me to start the stream.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Go ahead and start the stream. We are close, very close.
All right. Welcome to our second night of the ACB business meeting. And... tonight is night 1 of resolutions. Yayy. We will also be doing the first reading for constitution and bylaws. I want to thank you for coming. I will just mention a very few things as we get started here this evening.
The first is that the Zoom is our official meeting venue. So obviously, you can probably figure out that if you're listening on ACB media, we don't have an open vote, we should talk to Jeff about that. He should fix that, I think. Also, there are people joining us in clubhouse this evening. And the same is true for clubhouse.
It's going to be a lesson only. If for any reason we lose the clubhouse or stream, if we think we can get them back quickly, we will do that and we would be willing to pause for that. But if we actually lose them, Zoom is the official venue, so the meeting will continue in Zoom.
It will be recorded and part of the podcast so you are absolutely welcome to catch it there, if you miss it here but I haven't found a way for you to vote in the podcast. So we hope you'll be here in Zoom for voting. So, thank you for that.
We have a number of people with us here in the panel, again. We have of course our parliamentarian Denise and Nancy who is our vote supervisor, voting supervisor and she will be counting up the votes along with Denise.
I think we have resolved the technical problems we had about that last night.  So, I hope we can count them a little quicker.
We have with us, first vice president interim, Ray Campbell who will be presiding over most of the meeting.
We have Gabe Griffith, resolutions chair.
And we have a number of people supporting us, Denise is here, she will be keeping track of the festivities as our secretary, but also, keeping track of the order in which people will be speaking pro, and con any resolution or topic that we're doing.
We have our support people who will be supporting us in the background, Monica Slopa is our host. Herbi is managing our thing... our clubhouse. And we have Rick Morrin managing the streams and people backing him up. So we are pretty well set to go, I think.
Lots to do this evening. The first thing on our business agenda is the first reading of the constitution and bylaws amendments. There are two amendments. These will be debated and discussed on Friday the 23rd and they will be voted on.
They require a record vote and those will be voted on the July 5th voting time in the afternoon, and reported out, the roll call will happen on the 6th. So that is how the constitution and bylaws process will go. But tonight is the first reading. So, um... without further ado, Rick would you please play the first amendment.
>> I hate to do this Deb, I need a couple of minutes. I didn't have that one cued up.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Oh, oh, okay.
>> Just give me about two or three.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  All right. We will give you about two or three. Then while he's doing that, let me just mention some of the fine fundraising opportunities that we have this summer in ACB and I want to start by mentioning the walk. Um, make sure that -- you're going to need a good walk after all these evenings of sitting.
I want to remind you to represent -- to register for the ACB Brenda Dilan memorial walk. You can do that by going to ACB.ORG and looking for the register for the walk link and getting that taken care of. That's also important to do.
Um, so make sure you do. And also, I want to mention that the mini mall is going to be available in the in-person convention and they have some new items you might want to go up to the mini mall now and check that all out. And start thinking about what you would like to purchase and getting that ordered and there will be a mini mall booth that is near the beginning of the convention center near the MMS table and the angles.
So you want to check out the mini mall. How are you doing Rick?  About ready there?
>> Yeah, I've got it in English, I don't have it in Spanish.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  We'll take it in English. What we are going to be doing when we have both of these, which I know we do for the resolutions this evening, we will play first the English and then the Spanish version and we are being translated in Spanish on ACB media 8, as well as in our special Spanish channel in Zoom.
So, um, that's really quite a trip to be able to switch back-and-forth. And any of you who are in Zoom, can go over and check it out and come right back. But um, in the meantime, let's go ahead, Rick, and play the first proposed amendment.
>> ACB constitution and bylaws committee is pleased to submit the following proposed bylaw amendments and the committee recommends a due pass on the proposed amendments set forth here in. 223-01, proposed amendment to bylaw 5A to make the ACB treasurer... of the Board of Directors, current language, A, the Board of Directors shall elect a sub-committee of 3, which shall review and make remen dictations.
Once a budget has been adopted by the board it cannot be altered except by a two-thirds, open parenthesis, 2/3, vote of the Board of Directors. Proposed amendment language, A the Board of Directors shall elect 3 members to serve with the treasurer on that committee which shall review and make recommendations to the board regarding the annual budget.
End of bylaw amendment 2023-01.
2023-02, proposed amendment to bylaw 6 D, to set the time for the appointment of the constitution and bylaws committee to coincide with that specified for the resolutions committee. Setting a new deadline of 60, days before the opening of the convention for submission of constitution and/or bylaws amendments to the committee.
And striking the sentence refers.
>> Yeah, and it's coming.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Someone needs to be meeting.
>> Committees current language, D constitution and bylaws committee. At least 90, days prior to the opening of each annual conference and convention, the president shall appoint a chairperson and at least 4 additional members to a constitution and bylaws committee.
This committee shall have the responsibility of preparing amendments to the constitution and bylaws for presentation to the conference and convention. All proposed amendments to the constitution and/or by laws must be submitted in writing to the constitution and bylaws committee on or before the end of the first day.
Following the day of the roll call meeting of the conference and convention. Amendments whenever possible shall be submitted electron click in ASCII text format. The bylaws committee must report all submissions with or without recommendations. Proposed amendment language, deconstitution and bylaws committee, the president within 60 days after the close of each national conference and convention shall appoint a chairperson and not less than 4 additional members to the constitution and bylaws committee.
Shall have the responsibility of considering and preparing amendments to the constitution and bylaws for presentation to the conference and convention. Any amendments to be considered shall be considered to be committee no less than 60 days prior to the opening date of each conference and convention. The constitution and bylaws committee shall report all proposed constitution and/or bylaw amendments to the conference or convention with or without committee recommendation.
End of bylaw amendment 2023-02.
This concludes the ACB constitution and bylaw amendments for consideration on June 23, 2023. 
[Pause] 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, Deb, are you there?
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yes, I am. Sorry, I got muted somehow. I apologize. Thank you, Ray, for that.
Okay, so now I'm all flopped up, right?
All right, that does conclude the constitution of bylaws portion of the meeting, apologize for my moment of silence there. [Chuckles]
And we now move on to our resolutions portion of the meeting. So... by way of slight background on this, we have had 3 different co-chairs for the resolutions committee over the last 3 years and we've had a lot of challenges with keeping someone there and keeping that work flowing and um, there was a lot of feedback about problems related to the distribution of resolutions and the entire process that we kind of went through.
Although we were trying really, really hard. So Dan asked me before the departure of Eric and the transitions that we made, Dan Spoon who was our president asked if I would co-chair the resolutions committee and assist Gabe with the resolutions process. When that transition occurred, and Dan became the Executive Director and I became the interim president, we decided there were a number of functions that would be operating um, in an unusual way, this particular year.
Because of the suddenness of the transition. One of those was that I would continue as bylaws co-chair. Um, I will tell you that in that capacity, I tried to operate in that capacity completely, and I did not because of my actual role as president, I did not participate in any of the voting on the various revolutionizing enough if I had been able to vote, there was only one where my vote would have made a difference and caused that resolution to be a tie.
So um, we would have then had to have the chair vote and I don't know how that would have turned out. But I can tell you very straight up that I did not because I thought that would be much cleaner.
Now that we are here to present the work of the resolutions committee, I decided again that it would be cleaner for me to operate in the role of the vice chair of the committee and assist Gabe in whatever way is needed an helpful. Particularly if we're doing any editing.  So, I decided that the best way to handle that would be to give our first vice president, Ray Campbell, an opportunity to preside.
He's going to get one more opportunity to do that when we get live, but he's going to get one now, and so Ray will be residing over the resolutions process for the next 3 evenings as we do our work.
How we will be basically proceeding is that Gab will present a resolution. We have them recorded. They will be read. He will you know, present the recommendation. And when we are prepared to take the -- when we are prepared to take the discussion, we will call for those who wish to speak in favor of the motion, to -- I mean, I'm sorry, in favor of the resolution to identify themselves, Monica will identify people who are raising their hand and they will confirm that they wish to speak in favor of the resolution.
We will lower those hands, they will keep their -- their mics will be allowed to stay open and they will wait while we find out if there are people who wish to speak in opposition to the resolution.
If there are we will also cue them and they will be added to that cue. Then we will proceed with the debate.
And we will go back-and-forth pro and con.
Prior to the debate, Ray is going to be asking for taking the 5-minute period of time for questions and that will um... be taken before we start the debate.
During the debate, if there's a point of order, we will have all the hands do you because we will have identified the 5 people speaking in favor and the 5 people who are speaking in opposition to the resolution. So if you then raise your hand, it must be for a point of order and we will call on you to hear that point of order at that time, if that should arise.
So then when that debate has competed and each person has had their two-minute opportunity, we recognize with the logistics, it may take more than the 20 minutes prescribed to get that done and as long as we are moving along in good protocol and people are stopping when they should and everything, we are in good faith and we'll be doing that.
And so once that is done, then that debate is completed, then Ray will make the meeting and call for the vote and handle that process in the usual way. So... then we will move on to the next resolution. We have 5 resolutions to cover this evening. [Clears throat].
Are there any questions about that process, before we begin?  If you're -- if you have something else that your hand is raised for, please lower your hand. We're not taking other kinds of discussion, but if there are questions about this, we can take those. 
[Pause]
>> We do have a couple of hands up.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Okay. Monica, would you call one.
>> Yes, Charles. 
>> MONICA:  You should be allowed to talk. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  There you are.
>> I'm sorry. I meant to speak in favor of the first 3 resolutions.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  We're not doing that yet, Charles. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  No, not yet.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  If you want to speak to any resolution, we are not doing that.
>> I know that. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  We'll get you, weal get you.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah, as the maker of the resolution, it would be understandable that Charles -- 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Absolutely. And that's one thing that we will do as we recognize. So if you are representing the maker of a resolution get your hands up and we will make sure to get on it for the debate.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Okay. Next hand. 
>> MONICA:  Amanda.
>> Yeah, just real quick, Madam President, at the bottom corner or the bottom line of the Zoom screen, there's a Q&A thing there, icon. I am wondering if we are going to utilize that and take questions from that?
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  We thought about taking points of order from that, but we haven't really totally worked out the logistics.  Once we get rolling on the process, we can. But there are -- we have not taken an opportunity to explain to people how it works.
So I think although it's present, I think what I would prefer for this evening, that we not use that. Unless we get really bogged down in the questions and process, and then we'll change our mind. But, let's try. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  And of course, that is not available by telephone, so....
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yes.
>> That is correct. I just didn't want people to be typing their questions in the Q&A.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah, yeah.
[Cross-talk]
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  We will use it later I think, in the week. But these resolutions mostly will not be too hard to work through, I think.
>> Okay, thank you very much.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Thanks, Amanda. That's a good question.
All right. Anymore questions?  
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Remember, we are not debating anything.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Monica, are there more hands?  
>> MONICA:  Yes, Agnes has her hand up.
>> When you say point of order, does that refer to the process?
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yes. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  I'll explain what a point of -- a point -- I'll explain that, which a point of order is.
>> Okay, thank you much. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  That's exactly what it refers to, Anges but yeah. 
>> MONICA:  Next, there's a phone number, 773, ending in 390. -- 394 I mean. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  That's Debby.
>> Yeah, this is -- I'm Debby from Chicago. I'm double checking that tonight we are just using hands for votes. Is that correct?
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  That's correct. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yes.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yes. So, any resolutions that require a record vote after the voting has occurred will not be voted on with your voting code, unless we get to Shamburg. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  And Deb, as part of that, also, what will happen tonight is we will take the vote. If less than 25 are on opposing side, we will not ask for the recording vote.
25 or more on the opposing side then we will ask if there's 25 that would like to have a record vote and that's how we determine if we need to have a record vote on July 5th.
>> I have to skip one night. The results of the resolution, will that be on anything?  So if you miss a night, you get to see if the resolutions passed?
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yes, the podcast will be available. We will have the podcast available, relatively quickly. So that would be the way. We won't be publishing yet, all of the resolution outcomes. But we will have the podcast available.
>> All right. Thank you so much. 
>> MONICA:  Chuck Jones.
>> Yes, are the constitution and -- 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  You just don't want me to talk, that's all.
>> I just wanted to find out if the constitution, bylaws and residence resolutions are on the ACB media stream web channels?
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  I'm sorry, I'm muted. Channel 1 for the English version and channel 8 -- 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  I think you meant the actual resolution.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Sorry, sorry, sorry.
>> Yeah, the resolution, the English versions are on channel 10. And the Spanish versions are on channel 9.
>> English is ten and Spanish is nine.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah, that's for the podcast of the proposed.
[Cross-talk]
>> You can also go to the ACB business feed, podcast feed and they are available there as podcast se.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah, so you don't have to wait for them to come around. Or you can come to my house because we play them to fall asleep at night.
Okay, I want to move into the resolutions so I would like to take two more hands. Let's take another hand. 
>> MONICA:  There are no hands right now.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Okay, done with hands, let's keep them down. Very, very important that you keep your hands down unless we are taking hands, because otherwise we are going to lower them. All right. Mr. Campbell, take it away. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Thank you, Deb. Good evening, ACB. I'm -- appreciate the opportunity to help you, help guide us through this process. Charles, please quit putting your hand up and down. I see you doing that. I know you want to get in there.
Thanks for the opportunity to guide us through this process. So, what I think we'll do is start the resolutions process. What is going to happen, I'm going to introduce Gabe, he will give any remarks he would like to give to get us going and then introduce the first resolution, it will be read.
And then um, we will have an opportunity for up to five minutes. Doesn't have to be five minutes. If you have your hand up to ask a question and that question gets asked and answered, I ask you to put your hand down to move things on.
When the 5 minutes has expired, we move to 20-minute debate period and that's where we call people for and guest resolutions. If we have 5, 4 and nobody against, we are going to give the maker of the resolution, maybe a chance to speak about it. But we not going to take it into debate. There's no reason to have debate if we don't have anybody against. Let's see how this rolls. Without further ado I'm going to introduce the chair of the ACB resolutions committee, the president of the California council of the blind.
Mr. Gabe. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  Thank you. I'm not going to name people by name, but I do want to thank the resolutions task force, 2.0, 3.0, 5.0?  I can't remember. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  3. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  3. But Ray for chairing that. I think that was co-chair or vice chair, something like that. But you know, to help get a lot of this framework in place. And um, everybody that was on that task force.
Deb is the co-chair or vice chair this year for the resolutions committee and helping to carry it out and all the editing that she did for these, definitely made my job or my part of helping to run the meeting a lot easier. Not having to do all the editing as well.
I did do some of it but um, not having to be the one to do both task, definitely helped there. Um, obviously the entire resolutions committee and everyone there, as well as everyone who submitted resolutions and then came to our meetings to participate in getting them prepared with what you've heard being played on the ACB media channels and podcast and what we are going to hear tonight and the next couple of evenings.
So um... through the process, hopefully you guys can also see how this process has evolved from where it was, say 2 or 3 years ago. And um... yeah, we are still -- it's still evolving. After this is all done, we would be happy to hear whatever feedback on what folks think would be better going forward. But with all of that being said, um... I think that's enough of y'all hearing from me for a bit.
So with that, Rick, are we ready to play resolution 2023-01?
>> Resolution 2023-01 medical and exercise equipment submitted by ACB diabetics in action. Maintenance of good health requires physical exercise and monitoring of chronic health condition and whereas equity and equal opportunity require that people who are blind or who have low vision should be able to use exercise equipment. For example, treadmills and stationary bicycles and monitor chronic health conditions.
For example, diabetes, pulmonary or cardiac illness. To the same extent sighted people can do so. Cannot afford smart device technology, which is often used as a mean of accessing screen output and controls on exercise equipment and medical devices and whereas technology exists that would enable manufacturers to provide accessible output of information for exercise equipment and medical devices.
And whereas HR1328 the medical device nonvisual accessibility act was reintroduced by Illinois representative Shakawski on January 23, 2023, would require that all medical devices will provide accessible output of the information. Now, therefore be it resolved by the American counsel of the blind in convention assembled that ACB strongly support the passage of HR1328 and be it further resolved that ACB urges centers for Medicare and Medicaid services,CMS and the Food and Drug Administration to prior that all and other information in an accessible format and ACB urges manufacturers of exercise equipment and medical devices to enable devices to provide information in an accessible manner. End of resolution 2023-01.
Span.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  You're playing the wrong -- 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  It's okay.
[Speaking Spanish]. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  Okay. I have to say that was weird to hear Food and Drug Administration said in the middle of all of that. Yeah. Resolutions committee does recommend a [off mic] on this and I will -- 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  All right. We do not -- 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  And Mr. Campbell I do believe since it's a committee recommendation --
[Cross-talk] 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  That is correct. I was just about to say. Okay. You've heard the resolution. You've heard the recommendation of the committee. We will now entertain any questions or clarifications on this resolution that anyone has. I see we have some hands. Monica, let's start down the list. 
>> MONICA:  Yeah. David Kinsbury.
>> My question relates to this resolution and any resolution that passes over the next 3 days. What assurance can be given that those resolutions that pass will be meaningfully followed up upon and monitored?
And the reason I ask that is because last year a resolution on resolutions was passed, recognizing the follow-up after resolutions had been passed, really weren't followed up upon at all. And to the best of my knowledge -- well, I know at the end of August the board talked about that resolution -- 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, you're going to take our five minutes.
>> It will be done in 30 seconds.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  This is not relevant to this resolution, though.
>> I did look at the 2022 resolutions and of the 16 or so passed I think only 4 or 5 were meaningfully acted upon. So... I'm just wondering, my question would be what happened to last years resolution on resolutions?  And what assurances are going to be given that any resolutions will be follow does up upon. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Mr. Kingsbury, the staff prioritizes resolutions.
They will certainly be followed up.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Mr. Chair, there will be a report as part of the advocacy report at the convention. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yeah, thank you. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  And that was part of what was asked in that resolution and it's up to the membership if there isn't information to come to the chair and the president and find out. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. Next hand, Monica. 
>> MONICA:  Janet.
>> Thank you, Mr. Chair and Deb., My question is why are we combining medical devices and diabetes equipment?  I recognize they are both extremely important and I believe in supporting both. But my concern is about one being left behind if they are combined in the same resolution. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Would you like to respond to that?  
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  Sure, I believe the intent from the diabetics in action was that the exercise equipment is important when trying to um... I'm blanking out.
So um, basically monitor and take care of your diabetes. And when you're exercising, you need to know where you know, what your readings are and how much you've done. You know, and what you've... gotten -- what the results of that work out are. So I think that's why they brought that into this resolution. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  I think I would also say we do have this legislation which has been introduced, we also do have another legislative imperative that deals specifically with exercise equipment and um, the advocacy staff is working hard to get that introduced. It hasn't been yet but we are working hard on that.
Next hand, Monica. 
>> MONICA:  Karen Campbell. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Oh, I don't know her.
>> Thank you. I'll make this quick. Is there anything in HR1328 that would deal with the issue of insurance priority, meaning that if a doctor recommends accessible equipment, and insurance company can't say "Oh, we'll pay for the inaccessible equipment but we are not paying for the accessible"?  
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Um... 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  [Sigh]. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  I think that would probably be a good question, maybe more for Clark to answer, regarding the legislation. Um... but I do -- I think um, I think all of us --
>> This is Clark. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  There is Clark. Go ahead sir.
>> Happy to answer that question, Karen.  So, the HR1328 is specific to the equipment, itself. Not to insurance providers. The goal there is to make all of the equipment with digital displays, accessible. So that regardless of which one an insurance provider is going to cover, that that would be accessible for the user. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  My guess would be it's premature since a lot of the equipment doesn't exist.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Doesn't exist, yeah, yeah.  How are we doing for the time. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  I was going to ask that.
>> Time.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Time, she says. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, that's all. That's our questions and clarifications. So now what I'm going to ask is let's lower all hands.  Nobody is going to get ahead of anybody here. And I know Charles, so don't get ready, Charles. And anybody else that might want to do that. So we lowering all hands. All hands been lowered?  
[Pause] 
>> MONICA:  Yes. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay. Now, this is where we go into the debate. And before we do that, I just want to explain, because it was asked, what a point of order is.
So once we identify our speakers, for and against, if you have a point of order to raise you will raise your hand and you will be called upon to give that point of order.
The point of order would be if somebody, for example, is speaking -- not speaking to the germane topic of the resolution or if somebody is attacking someone personally, or something like that would be the thing you want to call out as a point of order. We will go ahead and um, and handle that.
And that time that we spend taking care of that, will not count as part of our debate time.
We are now ready to begin our first, up to 20-minute debate period. I'll ask all those wishing to speak in favor of the resolution, please raise your hands. 
[Pause] 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Charles is up there. We've got two.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  And you can start calling on them Monica, so we can get them identified. 
>> MONICA:  Okay. Charles. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Charles, that's our first one. Denise, are you getting these?
>> I got it. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay. Next hand, Monica?  
>> MONICA:  Patty Harli. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Patsy. 
>> MONICA:  Patty, or Patsy. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, no speaking yet but we will get there. 
>> MONICA:  Michelle. And then Patty Fletcher.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Make sure you're all speaking in favor. 
>> MONICA:  Oh, sorry.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  They need to be unmuted.
>> Can we get the last name if it's not presented.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah, we should. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  So far we have Charles Navareti, Patsy Harlin, Michelle... Patty Fletcher --.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  And I need these all to confirm that they are -- 
>> MONICA:  I gave them all permission to unmute. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, would you all confirm that you're speaking for the resolution.
>> Charles: Yes.
>> "Yes."
>> "Yes." 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Anybody else?  In the group that was mentioned?
>> Yes. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  So we have our 5 that are speaking for.
>> Who is the 5th?  I don't have a 5th one. 
>> MONICA:  So we have Charles, Patty Harlin, Michelle but we don't have the last name.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Michelle, what is your last name?
>> Zenz. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  And then Patty Fletcher and is there a 5th person?  
>> MONICA:  Yes, Rozana Boldri. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, lower all hands please.
>> I'm sorry, almost did it myself. Oops. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yeah, let us do that so we can -- that's okay. Don't worry about it.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Don't worry about it. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay now, all hands are down. 
>> MONICA:  Yes. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Anyone wishing to speak against this resolution, please raise your hands. Two hands up against the resolution. Let's call on those two hands. 
>> MONICA:  It's not letting me see it.
>> Do you want me to -- 
>> MONICA:  I got it. Sorry. Janet. It's because -- Janet and then... Anderson. And... Greg. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, so Janet, are you speaking against this resolution?  You need to unmute and let us know.
>> Definitely speaking against this resolution.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Okay. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Who is the second person?  
>> MONICA:  Anderson. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Anderson?  
>> MONICA:  I gave them permission to unmute. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Can you unmute?  
>> MONICA:  While they are unmuting, I gave Greg permission -- 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Greg, are you speaking against?
>> I am speaking against. Thank you. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Anderson, we need to find out if you're speaking against. Let us know that. And we need your full name, too. 
>> MONICA:  I keep sending the "ask to unmute". 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  We are not going to be able to get you in.
There you go, now you're unmuted. Who is that?
Common people we have been at the Zoom thing for a while now.
>> I think that might be a crasher. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay.
>> There we go. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Oh, Albert. Are you speaking against the resolution?
>> I'm speaking against. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, so here is what we're going to do. So we have um, is that all the hands we have, Monica?  
>> MONICA:  Yes. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, so we've actually got -- 
>> MONICA:  Sorry, hold on, there's one more. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay. 
>> MONICA:  Well... no, it's... we're good. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  So what we're going to do. Let's lower all hands. What we're going to do, we will have to make it even, we will have the 3 for and 3 against to make it even. And then we will see where we're at there. So each person has up to two minutes. The parliamentary will keep time. First speaking in favor of the resolution.
I would like to call on Charles Nabarrete.
>> The ACBDA committee to repair resolutions including myself, Veronica Elsi, Chris Gray and Renee Zelikson.
When we proposed the first resolution, we kept in mind, it is important for diabetics, especially, to be active and engage in regular exercise and other activities so that the um... the calories would be burned and the [off mic] in a person's body would be lowered. That's why we combined this resolution with not only the devices with the level.
But to measure the effectiveness of the exercise used by a diabetic. Originally we had proposed that the output of these devices and exercise machines be verbal, but um, the committee changed that to accessible. And that's more encompassing description. We feel as a -- as diabetics, and our experience has been that not only do we have to monitor our glucose level. But also, to exercise and use that. Someone was going to speak.
That's why we did the two and as we did, we feel that it's important that these two... activities, these two measurements be made available, in order to more closely control our glucose level.
>> Time. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay we are at time.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Denise, would you give people 20 seconds before their time is up. I know sometimes on Zoom, Zoom blocks people from being able to interpret or whatever. So if you could give them a heads up close. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  20 seconds.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Well, whatever you want, Mr. Chair. But it would just help. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yeah, I think 30 seconds. Let's do 30 seconds.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah, whatever. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Denise, in we can do a 30 second warning that will be great. First speaker against is Jeanette Kutash.
>> I'm speaking against the amendment. While I believe both are important, in a recent surgical experience when I went in the medical professionals could barely understand how I could take my medication and any accessibility would help me, regarding my diabetes. If they don't get the medical side of it, they are certainly not going to see the exercise side of it.
And they will ignore one or both. I think we need to teach our medical professionals and we need to teach all those people that help us work out and then get those two groups together and make them a stronger force by having two separate entities.
I strongly encourage that people consider not voting for this resolution as it stands. Thank you for your time. My time. Your time. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  It's all of our time. No problem at all. Denise who recollects is the next person to speak for?
>> Patsy Harlin. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, you may begin. 
[Pause] 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Patsy you need to unmute. 
[Pause]
>> Let's come back to her. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yeah, let's come back to her. So -- so then we will -- yes, Michelle Zenz. So we are going to take Michelle speaking for. So go ahead, Michelle. 
[Pause]
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Monica are they still all allowed to talk?  You need to -- 
>> MONICA:  Um.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  You need to allow them to talk. 
>> MONICA:  I'm sorry. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yeah, keep them unmuted, Monica. We just need to keep them allowed to talk, anyway.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah, right. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay. 
>> MONICA:  I don't see um... oh, I'm sorry. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Michelle just raised her hand. 
>> MONICA:  Got it, she's allowed to talk. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, so Michelle will go with you and then one more against. Go ahead, Michelle.
>> So I'm in favor of this resolution. The reason I am blind is because of diabetes. Now that we have the continuous talking glucometers, it makes so much more important, many are programs that you have to be able to navigate. It’s not put out by audio, it's almost impossible to independently do the exercise that's crucial to maintaining your individual health when you have diabetes.
I just recently had a great-niece diagnosed with diabetes and within 3 days she was on a continuous blood glucose monitor and she's not physically active and playing volleyball and it's wonderful. But in order to keep up her lifestyle and hopefully that she won't have to become blind due to the long-term effects of diabetes. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Oh, thank you, Michelle. Appreciate that. Albert Anderson. You are now recognized to speak against.
>> Am I audible?  
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yes.
>> Okay, very fine. I have no wish to deprive anyone of anything -- of any benefit that might be gained from passage of this resolution. However, um, I am perhaps picking a nick here, at this one point. But um, I know in the second whereas clause, my question would be, are not equity and equal opportunity the same thing in application to this resolution?  And if not, provide a specific definition of equity with regard to this resolution.
I'm detecting the speech police coming... 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  [Chuckles]
Okay, let me give the Chair a chance to respond to that. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  I'm in the sure I know the dictionary well enough to be able to give you a good definition of differences --.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Well, yeah, we are doing debate. So he needs to be speaking -- we are not answering questions. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay. But um... yeah, um... that's -- we'll certainly, that's kind of for a lot of things are that way now, too.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Actually, Chris was the writer of that portion and Chris Bell and he talked about the fact that equal opportunity is different in equity in that equity is actually the sort of the legal term. But -- in terms of status. But we are not answering questions so we need to move on. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yeah, okay. All right. So Patsy, back to you, to speak for. If you're able to unmute. 
>> MONICA:  I actually don't see her. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Let's do to Patty Fletcher. If you could unmute and be recognized to speak in favor. 
[Pause]
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Is Patty allowed to talk. 
>> MONICA:  She's not. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  We need to keep these people allowed to talk.
Yeah, let's make sure we keep their allowed to talk on when they want to speak. Patty unmute.
>> I'm sorry, I did not mute myself. Okay, anyway, um... I'm speaking for. First I would like to acknowledge the argument about keeping them separate. I understand your desire to have both programs recognized and dealt with. [Clears throat]. My experience is as to lows: We already have talking glucometers and there are more types of equipment coming out every day.
I do not know if they are in circulation. I heard about equipment that will monitor by a touch sensor and if those become widely available, which eventually they will, we want them to be accessible. If we separate the two at that point then somebody somewhere is going to be: Well, this is not included. This was after we invented, this didn't include this. So we are just going to let this be grandfathered in as it.
Somewhere some Court will rule in their favor. So we must make certain that we allow these things to be available and if there's a way to firm it up so that they can't wiggle out one or the other, then do that. Thank you very much. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, before I go to Greg who wishes to speak against, we do have a couple of hands raised. Monica, we do have some hands up. Who do we have?
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  This is for a point of order. So if any of you have a point of order. If you do not have a point of order, lower your hand, please.
>> Ray you have two minutes left of your 20 minutes. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Thank you, Denise.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Patty has spoken, so her hand should go down. 
>> MONICA:  So Niral. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Do you have a point of order?
>> Yes, Do I and... I'm for it --.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  No, no. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  That's not a point of order. That is not a point of order. That's a debate. So we are out of order there at that point. And we've already got our debate.
Okay, we will take one more person speaking against and that would be Greg Wonsnider.
>> Okay, I am against this for two reasons. I love the affiliate and thank you for putting this resolution forward. But I will not be voting for it for two reasons. The major one is that the medical devices and exercise equipment talked about here, are usually covered um, at least medical devices are usually covered by insurance providers.
Therefore I'm not sure how going to the government will help in regards to this. I think you need to go to the source which Medicare, Medicaid, the insurance providers themselves. And advocate. And that's where I would like to see ACB do a lot of its advocacy work with the insurance providers themselves. The other reason I'm speaking against this is because I still don't feel like medical devices and exercise equipment, I feel like these are two separate resolutions.
And I -- even after the point of information --
>> 30 seconds.
>> I still don't feel like they are clearly defined. Thank you. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  All right. Thank you. We have had our speakers. 
>> DENISE IRMINGER:  Time. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Is there anyone that would be moved to extend debate?
Okay, we have one hand up, I hear. And that actually has to be voted on, guys. So, Niral?
>> I want to keep the debate going because I myself feel that -- 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Hold on, hold on.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  This is out of order. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  What you need to say is you need to make a motion to extend debate and that has to be seconded.
>> Okay, I make the motion to extend the debate. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Very good. Do we have a second?  
>> DENISE IRMINGER:  How long?  
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  I think for another 20 minutes for standing rules.
Anyone wanting to extend debate?  
>> MONICA:  Jeff's hand is up. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay. Jeff Tom's hand is up?  Um... go ahead and recognize that. 
>> MONICA:  You can unmute, Jeff. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Are you wanting to extend debate?
>> No I want a point of order. Since there are no more negative speakers on the list, the debate should cease. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay. That is um lapse parliamentarian, do you concur?  
>> DENISE IRMINGER:  That's what your bylaws are. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, very good.
Okay, all hands down please. And you know, don't be raising them until I call. All those in favor of the adoption of this resolution, please raise your hand. 
[Pause] 
[Pause] 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  We are going to let them go up.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Just a reminder while these are going up, please do not lower your hand. The vote counters will count the votes. They will tell you when we are going to lower your hands and then we will do it. So please, do not -- except to raise it, please don't touch it. Stay away from it. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Pause off the computer or the device once you raise your hand. Let me know when we have a count.
>> Just give us a second. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  It's floating around.
>> It is. 
[Pause]
>> I just need confirmation from Denise. I send you a second one. Okay, we need to figure out --
>> Just give us a second here. It's continuing to move. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Again, folks. Please do not lower your hands. It takes longer to count when you do that. 
[Pause]
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  It's not like grade school.
>> Okay, settled on that. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, all hands down.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  It will take a minute. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yeah, I know that.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Monica has a magic button she can push to do that.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Um-hum. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Um-hum. 
>> NANCY:  Can we pull the panelists down too?  Are they down?  
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Amanda, I'll tell you when to raise it.
Folks keep the hands down until I tell you. 
>> NANCY:  Monica has to resit it, you guys. Remove your hands from any kind of device. Monica will lower them. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  What we need is when we are doing this, a little thing that will accident happen, once you've raised it.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  I like it. You get a little shock. 
>> NANCY:  Keep your hands off the screens for now. Hands are all lowered. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, good. Let me get it.
All those voting against this resolution, please raise your hand. 
[Pause] 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  And again, do not lower them. We will take care of that.
>> Okay, we are in confirmation.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Ray. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Oh, I thought I was unmuted. Items.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  There, now you are. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Now I did it. So Deb... 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  That darn mute monster got you. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  May I have the numbers please. 
>> NANCY:  If favor of the resolution is 159. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay. 
>> NANCY:  Against is 34.
And just for record there was 245 people on Zoom. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, now all hands down. So... we had -- okay, it was very overwhelming in favor, however -- so it was very overwhelming in favor but we had more than 25 that were opposed.
So are there 25 people that would like us to take a record vote on this resolution, considering it was very overwhelming in favor?  
>> NANCY:  Shane has its hand up.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  They're not talking Monica. They are raising their hands to vote. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  If you would like us to take a record vote, it was an overwhelming passage, but if you want to take a vote, if 25 of you decide that we should do that, we will do that. 
>> NANCY:  I don't know what we would do if we didn't have cell phone, guys. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  [Laughter].
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  No kidding.
>> Okay, we've got the count. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  How many was it, please?  
>> NANCY:  9. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, therefore there not being 25 people requesting a record vote the chair rules this resolution is adopted. Um... Mr. Griffith, let's move on to the next one. All hands down. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  Do we have hands down, ready to move on?
>> Resolution, 2023-02 coverage of needles for insulin, whereas in order to avoid significant health problems, such as vision loss, loss of limbs and organ failure, diabetics who require insulin must [off mic] and whereas such injections must be made several times a day and whereas many diabetics who require insulin have minimal income and whereas, in order to inject insulin contained in an insulin pen, diabetics must separately purchase and attach needle which is may not be covered by insurance.
And whereas because of the cost of needles many diabetics reuse needles putting them at risk of additional disease or skip dosages all together and whereas several municipalities throughout the United States provide needles free of charge to other populations to control the spread of HIV and other diseases. Now therefore be it resolved by the American council to have blind in convention assembled that this organization supports legislation that would require all healthcare insurancers to cover needles. End of resolution, 2022.
 -- Speaking in Spanish -- 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  This remind me of being in the airport where they announce it in one language and then another. It's cool though. I'm picking up some words. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  The only difference is on BART we get it also in Chinese. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, what's the recommendation of the committee there, sir. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  The committee does recommend to do pass and I will so move. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  All right. Okay so being this is a resolution and it's recommended to pass, there is no second required. So now we are open for five minutes for any questions or clarifications, questions or clarifications. If you have a language question, or anything like that, this would be the time. Um... so Monica, do we have any hands?  
>> MONICA:  Yes, we have Carla. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  All right.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  One at a time. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Carla, go ahead.
>> It's actually a point of order and that is to let you know that when you are lowering hands they are not always going down. Um... and this happened last night as well. And so... um, sometimes I think when you -- when you're telling us that our hands are lowered, they are not. At least it's showing me that mine is still raised. So therefore, I try to lower it on my own. 
>> MONICA:  It's better that you don't because I'm checking and I wait until I hear no hands being raised and that's when I let them know.
>> Well, I'm sorry but when you say "all hands are down" my hand is not down.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Carla, regardless of what you see, when you press your hand, it is raising it up here. Up here is the official place. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yeah.
>> Okay, so how do I know if I'm voting or not?
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  You do not worry about it, we will worry about it.
>> Yeah, I worry about it.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  There isn't any other way to do this but to go with our count. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, we've been doing the Zoom thing for quite a while. Okay. Next hand.
>> I understand that but I submit that we do know how to raise and lower our hands and we do know if it's showing us that they are up or down. 
>> MONICA:  And I can also hear when you raise and lower the hand.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  You're not the count.
>> I'm not worried about the count, Deb.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Okay, we can't do anything about it. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  It's a Zoom thing. Go ahead.
>> Hi, it's Debbie. This may be a stupid question, I hope these needles are being used in pens and that this isn't a question about whether or not just to get needles to people because I had to give insulin to a cat. If I had to do it any other way other than a pen it would be been totally inaccessible.
So I hope we are going for needles that are being attached to pens. If you could clarify that for me, I would appreciate it. Thank you. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  Mr. Chair. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Go ahead. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  Yes, and I am not finding the word here. But I believe this is the one we tried to word it specifically so it would include whether it's a needle attached to a -- syringe or needle attached to a pen.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yes, correct. It's not configuration-specific. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  And we did say, talked about pens and needles. I don't envy you trying to inject a cat with anything, though.
>> But he's not diabetic now. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Good.
Yeah.
Next hand, please. 
>> MONICA:  We have Penny next.
>> Can you hear me?  
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yep.
>> I just wanted to mention, I saw a typo in the resolution, the word insurance it reads "insurances".
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yes, we corrected that in the final copy. So there are a couple of typos throughout the resolutions and you don't actually need to worry about those, we'll catch those. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  And also once these are adopted, our wonderful editor in the ACB office does a great job to help find any of those.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  And we will add the dates and all of that kind of thing. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay. Any other hands?  Denise, how are we doing on time?  
[Pause] 
>> DENISE IRMINGER:  One minute. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  One minute. Okay. Anymore hands?  
>> MONICA:  We have Patty Fletcher.
>> I'll be very brief. I'm 100% for and --.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  No, this is out of order.
>> Oh, I'm sorry. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Wait a second. We are -- I know we are eager, but we are almost [cross-talk] I do have something to ask. Sorry.
Lord this makes me hyper. I don't know how you do this all day long. Never mind. Anyway, my question is, if this -- if there is a bit of confusion and -- I don't have it in front of me either. But I really think we need to be certain that we are including -- it did mention the pens. It was very specific about it.
But does -- the insurance is going to cover all needles for insulin use. And are we stating, specifically, insulin use?  So they will have to have a prescription for insulin to get the needles provided. Let's make sure we are not enabling drug users. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  You want to go ahead?  I'm going to let Gabe respond to that. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  I'm sorry, could of you -- it cut out. Could you repeat that question?  
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  She basically is saying are we making sure, in this resolution, we are want together make sure it covers needles only used for insulin so that we are not saying -- enabling elicit drug use or something like that. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  You know, I don't know that it specifically says I. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  But insurance is going to [cross-talk] 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  I would assume that ACB is only going to advocate for legal usages of stuff and that insurances are only going to cover -- 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  I certainly think you would have to have a prescription for insurance coverage. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  Yeah, that's probably the best answer I could give on that.
>> Thank you very much. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Good enough. Okay. Now so we have had our five minutes of questions and clarifications. So now we are about to move into debate on this resolution. Make sure all hands are up and please do not put them up until I ask you to. 
[Pause] 
>> MONICA:  Okay, all of them are lower. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, they are down. For Monica, for the official venue, all hands are lowered. So now all who would like to speak for this resolution....
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Go ahead and call on the first one. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Remember Monica, keep them allowed to talk once you call on them. 
>> MONICA:  Yes, I will. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  So the first one is... 
>> MONICA:  The first one is Veronica. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, Veronica. 
>> MONICA:  And then Elsia. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Are you speaking in favor, Veronica?  
[Pause] 
>> MONICA:  Okay, just gave her permission.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Move on to the next one. Move on. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Veronica, are you speaking in favor?
>> I'm in favor.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Next one. 
>> MONICA:  Charles Navarete.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah, we hear you Charles.
>> Actually, I would like to have Veronica speak on this. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  She's already in the cue sir.
>> Okay, I'll not speak. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  You'll relinquish your spot?  Okay. 
>> MONICA:  Janine.
>> I'm speaking for. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Next... -- that's two. 
>> MONICA:  Niral.
>> I'm speaking for. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  That's 3. Niral... okay. Number -- next one. 
>> MONICA:  Steve and I want to say Hisen?  
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Steve, are you speaking for, sir?  My good buddy from Wisconsin. 
>> MONICA:  He has permission to unmute. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Steve, are you going to speak for?
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Get the next one started.
>> I'm speaking for. But I don't know --.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah, open them a little quicker there. That's okay. 
>> MONICA:  Patty Fletcher. And speaking for. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  So we've got our 5, for for and let's lower all hands.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Five for for. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  I could do something in five four time. Maybe.
All right. Are all hands down?  
>> MONICA:  Yes. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Anyone wishing to speak against this resolution?  
>> MONICA:  There's Steven... 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  His hand went back down, I think. Anyone wishing to speak against this resolution?  
>> MONICA:  Terry. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay. Terry Pachiko. Are you speaking against?
>> I'm actually looking for a point of information or point of order. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  If it's a point of order, we'll um, we'll take it before we start debate. But now information, that's what the first five minutes are for.
>> Yeah, I meant to say "order". 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Point of order, okay.  Any other hands against?
I don't -- 
>> MONICA:  That's all I see right now. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, so we have five, four and 0 against. We are going to taxpayer Terry's point of order and then what we are going to do is we're going to take -- we will give Veronica an opportunity to speak and um... that um... we have another hand. Anisia are you wanting to speak against?
>> I'm sorry, I have a point of order, as well. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, two points of order. We will take those.  So, we have five, four, so what we will do is we take the two points of order first and then we will take Veronica to speak for and then we are going to go to vote, since we don't have any other speakers against. Hope that works for everyone. Let's take Terry with the first point of order. What is your point?
>> My point is that, in the first five-minute segment, did we actually get an answer as to the type of needles?  Because there are other diabetic medications that require pens....  That are not insulin. And I don't know if we got the right answer on that. Things like [off mic] for instance. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  Mr. Chair....
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah, Veronica. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Go ahead, Gabe. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  As I said earlier, I don't know that it's necessarily limited to insulin, but I would think it's limited to any legal use. If you have [off mic] if there's legal use for it then hopefully you can get -- 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  And I think certainly we would advocate for anyone device that someone needs to use with a needle to inject. Um, I think, I think the reference -- Gabe direct me if I'm wrong, but the reference to pens is because those needles need to be attached and sometimes they are not covered by insurance.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Veronica is set up to talk and she actually is the primary author on this.
[Cross-talk] 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, let me take the second point of order here. Janet, we are not taking anymore hands. I'm going to take the second point of order, which is Anisio.
>> Am I still unmuted?  
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  You sure are.
>> I hope this is appropriate. But since there's no opposition, can I call for the question for the vote?  
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Um....
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  No. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  As I said at the start of this, if one person wants to speak for, she's the maker and very involved in making it. So I think we are going to give the maker of the resolution a chance and then we will take the vote.
>> All right. Thank you. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  No problem. Veronica, you are on.
>> I just want to make sure you guys understand what you're voting on. To answer all the questions about whether this covers insulin pens, it does refer to insulin but yes it would also include the Victosa (sp) and other things. What you are voting on is for ACB to support legislation that does it when it happens. Because there isn't currently legislation that does it.
And this came out of last year's convention as to why this resolution is here. So what is going to happen as a result of this legislation -- I mean this resolution, is ACBDA is tasked with going back and starting the process with getting our congressmen to make legislation and then once that is made, then ACB will be in support of the resolution. Why that is necessary, for our affiliate to commit to do this, we need to know that ACB will be behind us and may help with any resources.
Or what we need to make this happen. So we can work with our legislators to make sure that the legislation says everything you guys have been asking for. Just want to make it clear that you -- 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Excuse me. Charles, we need you to mute, sir.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Monica can mute Charles.
>> Veronica: You are voting for ACB to support legislation that gets created and you're setting ACBDA up to start the work, knowing that ACB will help us out, support resources and ultimately help support the legislation once it gets created.  So, I hope that's clear. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Thank you. Since we have no opposition, I'm going to call for the vote.  So, let's lower all hands. And please do not raise them until I tell you. 
>> MONICA:  They are all down, sir. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Thank you very much. Okay. All those in favor of the adoption resolution 202302, please raise your hand.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Unmuted people need to be muted. 
>> MONICA:  If someone can help me with that, that would be great. I'm getting it but can't get them all fast. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  The JAWS thing drives you nuts.
>> We are confirmed. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, let's lower all hands. Folks keep them down unless....
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Monica, I'll do the panel. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, please keep them down until... 
>> NANCY:  Looks like everybody has lowered their hands. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, wait for me to tell you. All those wishing to vote against resolution 2023-02, raise your hand.
We need the jeopardy music to play during this.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah, I thought we should need the jeopardy music. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Or the metronome.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  I do have one of those but that would drive you crazy. I can do all the -- whatever people would request, I can make my metronome do it. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  How are we doing, Nancy?  
>> NANCY:  We are settled. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, supervisor of elections could you give me the counts?  
>> NANCY:  There were 194, 3 against and there are 254 people in Zoom. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Much less than 25 people opposing the resolution. The resolution is adopted. And we will not ask for a record vote. Moving on, Gabe. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  Thank you, sir. Next up we have resolution 2023-03.
>> Resolution, 2023-03, reduction of insulin cost submitted by ACBD diabetics in action. Whereas in 2022 the United States Congress passed a bill which reduced the out-of-pocket cost of insulin to 25 dollars a month for Medicare patients but not for other diabetics.
Bill S146 the cap insulin price which reduce the maximum out-of-pocket cost for all diabetics, regardless of insurance coverage. And whereas other bipartisan bills are in development that are supported by the American Diabetes Association and other leading diabetes advocacy organizations. Which would reduce the cost of insulin and provide other protections for diabetics who require insulin.
And whereas a large number of diabetics who require insulin including diabetic's who are blind or have low vision have the difficult daily choice of paying for the prescribed quantity of insulin or using the funds for other necessities of life and whereas some HMOs and health insurance companies have required patients to use generic or less expensive insulin which do not comply the w the prescribed insulin.
And the proposed legislation would prohibit health insurance carriers from requiring the individual with diabetes to use an insulin other than the type prescribed be the treating physician.
Now in convention assembled that ACB supports the passage of any legislation that caps or reduces the cost of insulin for people with diabetes. And be it further resolved that ACB affiliates and ACB members be encouraged to contact their legislators to urge support of these bills. And be it further resolved that ACB consider adoption of the passage of a bill which would reduce the cost of insulin for all diabetics as a future legislative imperative.
End of resolution 2023-03.
 -- speaking in Spanish -- 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Committee recommendation?  
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  Recommends a due pass and I so move. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  All right. And it's been recommended that we, by the committee, that we pass this resolution, we are now open for five minutes for questions, or points of clarification that anybody has. I hear some hands going up. So Monica, just take them in order. 
>> MONICA:  First we have Richard. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, Richard.
>> I'm here. My question is... as reported information; talking about other people that require insulin, I thought that it was my -- I only thought that diabetics were the only ones that needed it but there must be other people. As I'm almost, as a member of the club I just need to find out what other kinds of medical conditions require insulin?  
>> Can you speak to that, Gabe?  
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  I can try. I don't know off the top of my head.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  It doesn't say to other people. It says not for other diabetics who require insulin. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  Yeah, because I couldn't --.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  No, it's talking about the difference between Medicare coverage, Medicaid coverage and other insurances. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yeah, yeah.
>> Thanks for that clarification.
>> This is Doug Powell. In the past resolutions committee has been pretty reticent about saying that we're going to strongly encourage or request or the legislative imperatives. I was wondering why it went through that way on this particular one.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  It was just part of the resolution and no one objected. I personally was concerned about -- but it only suggests that it be considered. It doesn't strongly recommend or anything like that. My concern was that as a legislative imperative, it probably needed to be more directly connected to the visual aspect.
But again, when you're asking people to consider it, it means that it punts it over to advocacy to decide.
>> This is Sharon and I'm wondering about whether we wanted to put a -- an amount in there, or keep it at the $35. I wasn't clear about that. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  I think $35 is what the legislation is doing. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  The bill has $25.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  And we don't need to put an amount. What my understanding is from the makers, they would be glad for any improvement.
>> Okay, all right. Thank you. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yeah. And I certainly think -- okay, next hand.  If we have anymore.
>> Janeen: Is it me, Monica?  
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  It sure is. Is that Michelle?
>> No, Janeen.
>> Doug kind of asked my question. What does this mean if we vote "yes," that ACB supports diabetics in action, going to legislators for this?  And why don't we just put it in our imperatives?  Because on Capitol Hill we really worked really hard on our imperatives.  So, I guess the answer is nobody objected.
But what is the difference between a resolution and imperative?  Which is stronger?
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Imperative means we are going to go to Congress. Our legislative imperatives are 3 or 4 items per year that we are taking. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  And Janeen, we can put this as a future imperative. So what -- what this resolution does, as I understand it, is we are going to support legislation that helps out if something comes up. But if nothing gets passed by Congress this year or the next couple of years, one of the things we could do is put this as a legislative imperative and put advocacy behind it.
But we don't necessarily want to wait until legislative seminar, if good legislation comes forward. Is that accurate?
>> Yeah, thank you guys. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, anybody else?  
>> MONICA:  Yes, Ted.
>> Can you hear me?  
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yeah, do we have time, Denise?  
>> DENISE IRMINGER:  Time. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Let's take this person first. Go ahead. You're the last one.
>> Okay. Yes, um, my question was, are the first and third result, I probably missed it. But are they different from each other in anyway?  To me, they sounded the same?
>> Let me read again for you. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yeah, let's just take a look at that.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  All right. They are all different, believe me. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  I'm sure they are different.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  So the first one is whereas in 2022 the United States Congress passed a bill which --
>> Nowhere as.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  The resolves. I'm sorry, oops, hold on. I want to get there, um, down a little further, excuse me, scrolling... okay, I'm sorry. Should have been in the right place for you. There are a lot of whereases in this resolution. Therefore be it resolved... that ACB supports the passage of any legislation that caps or reduces the cost of insulin for people with diabetes.
And then you didn't have a question about the second one, right?  That ACB affiliates and that be it further resolve that ACB consider adoption of the passage of a bill, which would reduce the cost of insulin for all diabetics as a future legislative imperative.
So that's what the difference is. The first one is we'll support anything that moves. The second one is, if it doesn't move, we might move it ourselves.
>> Thank you, Madam President. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, thank you, thank you sir. All right. We are done with our five minutes. So we are now going to move to debate. Are all hands down?  
>> MONICA:  Yes. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay. Okay. For those wishing to speak in favor of this resolution, please raise your hand. I hear -- start calling on them. I hear Veronica was the first one.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Open her, but just move along as quickly through them as you can there. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  We know Veronica wants to speak. Who is the next one?  
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  The next one is chuck. 
>> MONICA:  Kathy Dawson, are you speaking for?  
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Let's go to the next one. 
>> MONICA:  Chuck.
>> We got him. 
>> MONICA:  Oh, sorry. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Niral are you wanting to speak for.
>> Yes. 
>> MONICA:  And today. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Are you wanting to speak for?
>> Yes. 
>> MONICA:  And Nancy Mury. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Are you wanting to speak for?
>> I raised my hand by mistake. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, do we have any other ones?  
>> MONICA:  Yes. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Let's take one more.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Susan Rodgers. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Are you wanting to speak for?  
>> MONICA:  She has permission to unmute.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  We are not waiting too long, guys. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  You need to unmute quick so that we can get you. 
>> MONICA:  Donna Browning. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Are you speaking for?
>> Yes. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  And we have our five for.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  I love it. Great. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Let me know when all hands are down. 
>> MONICA:  Thanks for reminding me. Okay, they're lowered. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay. Now anyone wishing to speak against this resolution, please raise your hand. Janeen are you wanting to speak against this resolution?  
[Pause] 
>> MONICA:  Okay, Janeen. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Are you wanting to speak against?
>> Yeah. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay. So do we have anyone else against?  
>> MONICA:  Area code 4 -- 317 ending in 317. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  All right. That would be Pat.
>> Speaking against. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  All right. Got you. Pat.
So what we are going to do then is we've got five, four and two against. So we are going to take two each way. So just to be fair. And so to first speaking for the resolution is Veronica, I believe. Veronica go ahead.
>> Some of you may be wondering why this one is back again and thinking, didn't we vote on this last year?
And the problem is that when Congress votes on this discussion of insulin prices, they get tangled up and fighting and eventually part of it goes through and part of it doesn't and it's a game of persistence. So in addition to what I hope will be ACB support or the various diabetes advocacy organizations just keep pouncing back. It's a game of persistence. And because blindness is so closely associated with diabetes, I would really hope that ACB would join in supporting other organization the legislators hear the voice and say here is another organization saying stop it fix this.
I also want to point out that since this resolution was created, not only do we have senate bill 146, we have senate 954, we have this year's Shahing Collins act, senate bill 1269. And then there's another one that doesn't have a number yet. So thrust lot of people working on this and we need them to hear.  So what needs to happen is that ACB support whatever legislation is coming out and get on the list.
And us, ACB members, everybody, contact your individual legislators and say: Get busy, do this.
A lot of my colleagues are affected. And this year we have added the question of branding. I'll give you one quick example. I had to change my convention attendance to virtual because my insurance made me use an insulin that I'm allergic to and I've had a terrible allergic reaction, I don't have enough insulin to go to convention. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Oh my gosh, okay.  Thank you, Veronica. Speaking against, we have Janeen Lea.
>> I don't want to go after her.
[Laughter].
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  That's what you get to do, Janeen.
>> Well, at least it's not Donna Browning. I think I'm against this because, it's a little unclear and yes I'm so for diabetics in am a member and I'm for insulin getting on a scale. It sucks they gave you something you're allergic to by giving you a generic one.
I'm for that but in this resolution, we are asking for too much. I think we need to itemize it differently or do multiple resolutions. But I think in this one it's too much. And that's it, I'm done. Thank you. That's it. I'm done. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  All right. Next. Who is our next for?
>> Chuck.
>> I love this one. We need to lower the price, of the insulin, you know, $25 for all diabetics, as the resolution states. Because the more diabetics you -- the more people diagnosed with diabetes, the more people that can go blind and we don't need that to continue. So, I'm all for the resolution. And um, I just want to thank this um, resolutions committee for, not really adopting it yet, but putting this one together and that's a lot on the issue. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay.  Thank you, Chuck.
>> Yes, sir. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  And Pat.
>> Thank you for going ahead of me because you said what I was going to say. I'm not guest people getting assistance in the expensive cost of insulin, but sometimes there's the law of unintended consequences and I think we are about ready to hit that law. For example, in the non-Medicare [off mic] there are certain drugs that are now being used, not only for diabetes but for other purposes. These are extremely costly.
Some of them are not covered by Medicare and many of these are now being promoted for weight loss. I myself take pills. And in taking these pills, I risk my entire Medicare coverage. But they are the only pills that I can take that I'm absolutely not allergic to. I, like many people, who use these pills, have to import them from another country.
I think we have to draw a line or we are going to get drawn into supporting -- it's going to be very unclear as to -- and it will evolve that people will ask for the courage of these dual usage injectables.
I don't want to use the two main brand name, but people know what they are. They are on TV all the time. And it will be -- I would rather we succeed in something we can actually define, than reach for something that is going to have no end in sight, in terms of these injectable preparations that -- 
>> DENISE IRMINGER:  30 seconds.
>> That's going to be used by nondiabetic use, by a population not on Medicare. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  All right.
>> But I support getting the help they need. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, thank you, Pat. Okay. We have now had an even number for and against. Um... that was all the against we had, so we don't want to tilt the scales anyway. So now I'm going to call for the vote. So all hands lowered, please. 
>> MONICA:  Okay, they are lowered. Oh, no, they are not. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Put your hands down until I tell you. I know you guys are excited. I know you guys are excited. But let me give the order. All those in favor of the adoption of resolution 2023-03, please now raise your hands.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  And people need to be muted, the other people. 
>> MONICA:  I'm trying. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  When you are allowed to talk, you do have a mute button. When you're not speaking, please use I.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Also Monica, as [off mic].
>> If I'm unmuted, I'm sorry. 
[Pause] 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Thank you for bearing with us. We are learning how to do this. It's like the exhibition season, we are all learning how to do this. And it's um... by tomorrow night we will be into the regular season.
Okay, we are getting close to a count, here.
>> We have settled. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  All right. Now, we will lower all hands and wait until I give the word... please. 
>> MONICA:  I'm about to say something in Spanish here. I keep lowering and -- 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  People, again, please do not raise your hands once they have been lowered. We will get that taken care of. It may be responding a little slow on your end, so it's -- I think what's happening in part is you see your hand still up. We see it down. You think it's um... up and you lower it and then it goes up. It's the gremlins inside.
Just hang in there.  So, I still think a little Zap. 
>> MONICA:  I'm hitting the lower -- oh, hold on a second.
No, it's still not.
>> I see it up. 
>> MONICA:  Yeah, I hear it too. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  We have a hand that won't go down.
>> Tery, can you lower your hand, please. 
>> MONICA:  It's not letting me -- I'm trying a different way, but... it's not going. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  This sounds like a grimlend. 
>> NANCY:  It's continue together stay up. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, you may need to step out and come back in. Um... um... but of course that would -- you would not be able to vote. But that's the only thing I can think of to deal with that situation. So... 
>> NANCY:  Tery Lynn can you lower your hand, please.
>> She's still on. 
>> MONICA:  I keep trying from this side, Nancy, I still can't.
>> Yeah, I'm trying to do the same thing and it's not working. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  We are going to subtract one from the next count. If you would please, for a minute, step out and come back in, that will fix the problem for us, if you'll do that. That will be great.
Okay, now, all of those who are against adoption, resolution 20 -- 2023-03, please raise your hand.
>> There's nothing to be confused about.
I sure did.
>> Ray. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  Ray, you're not muted.
>> I just muted him.
>> Oh, did you?  [Chuckles]. Now we'll have to let him know that he's muted.
>> I just muted you. There we go. My wife was saying we never called for the vote 4, but I know we did, so. 
>> NANCY:  Okay, we are settled. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Nancy, can we have the counts please. 
>> NANCY:  You sure can but Terry Lynn did drop out before the count was started so we started clean with the against. The number in favor was 172. The number against was 16 and there were 238 people on Zoom when the count was taken. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  There being less than 25 against we will not call for a roll call vote. Therefore, the resolution is adopted.
Okay, moving on. Mr. Resolutions chair. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  Okay, we are moving forward to resolution 2023-04.
>> 2023-04, establishing an ACB policy for member referrals submitted by Mat and ACB next generation, whereas the American council of the blind, ACB is a member governed organization, and whereas ACB has 66 state and special interest affiliates which are also member governed and whereas ACB's constitution and bylaws allow for several membership categories including members at large.
And whereas one area of focus of the membership engagement program is membership growth and involvement. It is recognized that more frequent fractions occur between special interest affiliates and local chapters and whereas when an ACB member at large becomes a member of the state or special interest affiliate, such membership results in expanded engagement with the organization. Now [off mic] assemble that the ACB Board of Directors establish a policy and be it further resolved that this policy shall be an opt out policy such that no action is required by the member at large to be referred. And be it further resolved that referrals of members at large shall occur no less than annually and be it further resolved that any procedure be established by the open day 2024 annual convention.
Move to refer to Steering Committee. End of resolution 2023-04.
 -- speaking in Spanish -- 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  And I think we left the motion to a note of myself and Deb of what had happened. But as you heard, the resolution committee recommends for it to be referred to committee. So... 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, now um -- 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  Referred to -- 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Membership Steering Committee. All right. Now I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe since that's not a recommendation for a due pass, we do need a second to that. Is that correct?  
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  I do believe so, yes. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay.  So, a motion has been made from the resolutions committee to refer this to the membership Steering Committee. Is there anybody who would be minded to second that motion?
>> This is Chris Bell. I'll second it and I also have questions. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  It has been moved and seconded that this be referred to the membership Steering Committee. All right. Okay, so now we are debating that motion. So now we are into the -- we not debating it. Not yet. I'm sorry.
I miss spoke. Now we into the first five minutes if there are questions and clarifications and I believe Chris had some questions.
>> Yes, during the resolutions committee discussion, um, there was statements I believe by our interment president Deb, that the board is already doing what this resolution asking for and in the more expedited manner. I wonder if Deb would address that. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Deb, would you be minded to talk to that. I don't know where she went. Deb, are you there?
>> She's there, she's just rocking. She's muted. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Deb, you're muted, if you're speaking.
>> Just a minute, here. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Let's give her a chance to....
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  I don't know how that got muted. Someone muted me by mistake. I hear you question. I was starting to answer it and you said I was muted. I was looking for the button.
Yes, thanks Chris. So basically, um, when that resolution came, I went to um, member services and asked if this had been raised with them and they said it had not.
I started to examine the things we do about it now and I saw we do have inconsistency in how we refer our at large members to state and special interest affiliates. So um, what we determined it has not come before the board because I don't think it even will need to, other than a report-out. But we determined with staff that um... we do in some areas, make those referrals now.
We also don't ask the question consistently, regarding how um... people give us the permission to do that. So, we are going to be um, making those consistent. We will be doing that after convention, shortly.
And we propose to deliver it out to affiliates every 3 months and we won't need to wait until the 2024 convention to start. So... we -- I think it's a perfectly reasonable request. I don't think it required a resolution and so we suggested -- in the discussion of the committee, we thought it might be appropriate to just let membership work this out through the Steering Committee.
But basically the areas that would be affected would be convention registration, would be scholarship applications. Would be the people who contact us through the sign up via the friends of ACB.
There were several other, two or 3 other places where we actually have the potential to voluntarily collect data and collect it as the default. So you could opt out as the resolution suggests.
But we believe that -- I believe that it's very appropriate that affiliates um, have that. So we are going to be sending it to the presidents and not trying to parse it. Because especially for special interest affiliates, um, we don't want to be judging who is appropriate to refer where.
It makes more sense for the states to decide. So we will be forwarding this along, as soon as we can get those forms to be consistent. We'll do that with or without the resolution.
>> Hold on, I want to ask my second question. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  We only have five minutes.
>> Bill: But if the motion to refer passes, then how do you vote on the resolution?  Do you vote, assuming that you make that amendment, and what you vote for if you want it referred, but against it if you don't want it referred?
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  It's already moved to refer, Chris.
>> Chris: I understand that. Once you vote on that, if that bill succeeds, that's the end of it, right?
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yes.
>> Chris: Okay, that's what I wanted to know. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  What we are doing is voting on the motion to refer to the membership -- 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Exactly. That's exactly correct. So if you voted against that resolution then what you would need to then do is adopt -- move to adopt resolution. If the resolution fails. Am I correct on that?
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yes. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, good. All right. I think we are probably close to time, Denise?  
>> DENISE IRMINGER:  Yes, time. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Sorry about that. We needed to explain what we were doing that. Now we have debate. Now this is on the motion to refer. That's the issue on the table. For all those wanting to speak for the resolution -- the motion to refer. Excuse me. Please raise your hand. And Monica, we will start calling on you as they go up. 
>> MONICA:  Greg. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Greg, are you speaking for?
>> Niral: Yes, I'm for it. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Next one. 
>> MONICA:  Mat.
>> Mr. Chair, point of order. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  We can take that, yes, sir.
>> The resolution offers contradictory direction.  One is a motion for the board to publish a policy by next convention and then also to refer to committee. So can I entrust that if the motion to refer is passed, that the board will you know, work with membership Steering Committee to --.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Absolutely. Yes, that would be the intent. Sure, Matt. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  The motion just [cross-talk]
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Where it goes. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  And this is a valid action.
>> Matt: In that case I wish to speak for. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, next one. 
>> MONICA:  Greg Holands. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Are you for referring this, Mr. Holands?
Okay, next one. 
>> MONICA:  Amanda Wilson?  
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Amanda Wilson, are you for referring?
Are you being given permission to talk. Alt-A. Command shift-A.
>> Yes, I'm for. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  How many do we have?
>> Two, three -- I... [sigh]. Who is the 4th one?  
>> NANCY:  Patty Fletcher.
>> It's hard to follow you guys. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  And we can take one more for.
>> Chris: Point of order. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  What's your point.
>> Chris: My point of order is I would like to suggest that the process would be quicker if we see how many people want to speak in opposition and then we will know how many people we need --
>> Patty: No, because --.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  We may go to that, Chris, tomorrow night. That might make a lot of sense. I think we will continue where we are tonight, but -- although we've got maybe [chuckles]... some that might go the other way, so. Yeah. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  That's true.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Let's try to predict. You're right. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  [Chuckles]. 
>> MONICA:  The last hand that I've allowed is Janeen. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay.
>> I have a question. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  We already passed time of questions.
>> It's a point of clarification. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  We passed time for that. It's out of order. It's 5 minutes. You got to get in there.
>> Well, Chris --.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  It was hard. Yeah.
>> There was not a chance for us to clarify. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Do you want me to go ahead and take it?
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah, go ahead and take one.
>> It's just really quick. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  I'll take this one, okay, Janeen.
>> When you're a member at large and refer to an affiliate, do they have to pay again?  Or can they change the membership?
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Oh, that's not relevant to this. When you're referred to an affiliate, all you're doing is getting information about the affiliate. The discussion of paying is not part of this.
>> But for them to become a member of that affiliate?
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  If they chose to join the affiliate, right.
>> That's all I have clarifying. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  No problem.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  You have to make the choice, all they are doing is getting your name so they can invite you.
>> I wanted to clarify that.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  And the invite is free. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yes.
>> So I will speak for because the not Matt will beat me up.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Okay, thank you, all right. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Now we have our five.
>> Is she speaking for?
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  For, yes. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  So we have five for and okay. Is there any --.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  That's nine, oh God. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Five, four... oh, jeez. Lower your hands, please.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah, I think we are going to take Chris's friendly recommendation. And it might backfire on us. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Well, we will blame him if it does.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Oh, we will. [Chuckles]. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  All right. Okay, are all hands down?  
>> MONICA:  They are all down, Ray. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Thank you, thank you, thank you. All right. Anyone wishing to speak against the motion to refer?
Okay, we have Kerry Pachico.
>> Yes. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, next one. The next hand after Terry. Do we have anymore?  
>> MONICA:  Yes, there is one. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, we have one other hand. 
>> MONICA:  Okay, Alice.
>> Yes, I want to speak against. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, is there anyone else that was speaking against referral?
Okay. Now um... all right.  So, I think we are going to take Chris's idea tomorrow night. I really like that. Thank you, sir. Didn't mean to yell at you there. Anyway, okay, what we are going to do is we have to keep it even. We have two against, so we are going to also hear from two for.
So what we are going to do is the first speaker for, who would that be?
>> Greg Wandsneider.
>> I would like to speak for this resolution. I... this resolution um, was submitted by my -- affiliate that I'm in and I agree with helping to find members at large, helping to find their right fit. One of our goals in ACB is to develop, lead and elevate. And duo that by telling members at large, where they can refer to.
This leads to them, hopefully, getting involved in as members. And having some sense of belonging in the organization. I fear that if this doesn't pass and get referred to membership, that... the members will not have a great sense of belonging to the organization, as only members at large.
And so that is my fear and I hope that you will consider voting "yes" to this resolution. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay. Again, just a reminder. You're speak together the motion to refer and so what you're saying is you're in favor of moving it to membership steering so that we can process. You can get it.
>> Right. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Excellent. That's good. All right. Now, we have Terry Pachico that would like to speak against the motion to refer. Tery.
>> I would like to speak against the motion to refer to the membership Steering Committee. I believe it should be as it was originally recommended, referred to the Board of Directors because the Board of Directors represents all of our members or they wouldn't have been.
>> Hold on. I was --.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Some people need to be muted. Go ahead, Terry.
>> Terry: Because the Board of Directors represents our entire swath of members as opposed to the membership Steering Committee which means well and does a lot of good work, but I think this belongs with the Board of Directors not the membership Steering Committee. Maybe in con jurisdiction but definitely with the Board of Directors. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, we got that. Next person wishing to speak for would be... 
>> MONICA:  Niral. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Go ahead Niral. 
>> MONICA:  You're unmuted.
>> Yes, can you hear me?  
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yes.
>> I am for this because I feel -- I feel that this is so prevalent because people are lost. They don't know where to go. They don't know what's going on. And this is: Hey, by the way, there's something going on.
Letting them know they can plug into something in the area, will connect them to the right area. We want to help them where they will be best fit and What Triple-G said. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  One more against. 
>> MONICA:  Alice.
>> It would be me. I would hope that you're going to let the maker of the bill speak since he wanted to speak for. But I'm against the resolution going to the membership committee. My reasons being first of all, obviously like Debra said, there are inconsistencies in what is already happening.
And that all came from the membership committee and task force or group or whoever they are, Steering Committee. I can never keep them straight what they are calling themselves. So here we have inconsistency. So obviously that didn't work.
Second of all, the whole process of resolutions is supposed to be the chance for the membership to come forward and kind of ask and through the resolution, say what's we expect the board to work on. [Off mic] therefore in writing and.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Somebody needs to be muted.
>> Alice:it's in writing and the board has to take action. I'm tired of hearing that it doesn't matter whether we have a resolution or not, we'll work on it. Well there's not no true guarantee that that will happen, if it's not a resolution. Thank you.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  So just to clarify, Alice. It is still a resolution. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yeah, we are just referring --
>> Alice: No, it is -- you're right, we are referring. But I keep hearing, we keep hearing that you don't need resolutions and the board is going to do this. And it happened during some other resolutions that came up, the committee said we don't need a resolution because we are going to do it anyway.
Well, the membership truly has no guarantee unless it's adopted as a resolution. Then we know you have to take action on it. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay. Thank you. All right. So let me make sure we all understand what we are voting on. And what the consequences of your vote are. So... if you -- what we are going to vote on the motion to refer this resolution to the membership Steering Committee. If you vote in favor of that resolution -- of that motion, it will be referred to membership Steering Committee, whether he not have any further discussion on it. If you vote against the resolution to refer, then we would come back to discussion.
Someone would need to move a due pass. That what would mean is we would be then debating the resolution as it was originally written with the Board of Directors, um, putting together the referral policy as Matt requested. So... we are now going to take a vote on the motion to --.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  So Ray, hold on just a second. We would have to amend the resolution to make that change. Because you don't go back to a previously existing resolution. You would amend the last resolve clause to refer it to the Board of Directors. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yeah, you would have to do that, yes. So we would need to do that. So now you vote on the motion to refer, and if favor or against I. will go to membership Steering Committee. If you vote against the motion to refer then we would need to move the resolution.
And then someone would then need to move to adopt the resolution before we continue.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Well, yes, and then they would have to move an amendment, so... 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Um-hum. And. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  Mr. Chair. I believe I heard the submitter of the resolution, the author of the resolution speak earlier. Did he want a chance to speak?  
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Well, that takes us -- it's uneven.
>> Alice: No, no, no. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  I'm hearing... --
What we'll do is we will take the vote and then if the vote --
>> Janeen: Ray, I can switch to no. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Don't be doing anything right now. Okay. Okay. If you vote in favor of the motion to refer, then we will have no more discussion of the resolution. If you vote against the motion to refer, then we would need to have it move to adopt the resolution and at that point, it would be -- it's referral to the Board of Directors.
And that would be --.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Ray, can I just recommend that I think the simpler way to do this, because you might get people to vote "no" on the principle that you're not allowed Matt to provide a statement. So I think you should let Matt um -- 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  I just don't.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  It's going to take us longer to argue. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  I don't want to go uneven on the numbers.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  I don't think in this case that's the issue. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, go ahead, Matt. Yes, sir.
Matt -- there you go.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  All right. There you go.
>> Matt: All right.  So, I am um... after consideration of the action by the committee, you know, if I can entrust as Deb as insured, that at the end of this rainbow, will be a policy and a process, that meets or exceeds the request in this resolution, then I am for the motion to refer.
And I entrust that the Board of Directors will do its job of proper oversight and make sure that this is completed. So... that's its. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Thank you, I'm glad we did that. That was much easier.
Okay, now we are going to take our vote on the resolution to refer. 
>> MONICA:  I'm trying to lower hands and people keep raising them. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Let's get all hand lowered, please.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Zoom wasn't really designed for this. It doesn't like when a lot of hands go up. I wish it had a better tool. 
>> NANCY:  Deb, I do have Dan on keeping raising his hand. I'm not sure if you want him to talk.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  See, Nancy is worried he's going to fire her. 
>> NANCY:  That's right.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Sure, what do you want, Dan?
>> Dan: This is truly a point of order. I believe what our standing rules call for and I just wanted to make sure that I understood it. Was that we would allow one more person to speak on the positive, if we had 5 on one side and two on the other, we would allow -- we would allow an even amount and then one additional one on the side that had the majority of the people speaking for and against. I believe that's what we had on the standing rules. I wanted to clarify that because as we go along, we might get in -- you know.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yes, very good. Thank you. And I think we've been clearly hearing from both sides so we will try to do a better job.
So I think you handled it properly this time.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah, so we did good. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  I guess I'm -- I try -- I'm trying to be bipartisan, here. You know.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  But it felt like the right thing to do. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Now we are going to go. All those in favor of the motion -- 
>> NANCY:  Wait, wait, wait. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Now what?  
>> NANCY:  We have a couple of hands up.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  They need to be down. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, wait for me to call my announcement here. Okay, all those in favor of the motion to refer resolution 2023-04 to the membership Steering Committee, please raise your hand.
A little bit of baseball insight, I have to turn it off because it drives me crazy.
>> I have mine on do not disturb. I looked down and I had 27 notifications.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Are these all about baseball?  
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  No, only 25 of them all.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  I should probably haven't said that when I'm running for office. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Actually, you're just luckily that Gabe and I haven't engaged in the conversation that is probably on both of our minds, how are we going to live without Aaron, but... 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  Much easier than with him N a way.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  That's what I know my husband thinks, yeah. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  At least you won't have to deal with the craziness. Personally I think we were going to suck this year and I say good riddance. Any of you that are Jet fan, enjoy. You asked for it, Deb. Complaining about my talk here, send your e-mails to Deb.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Exactly. Oh, they do, they do. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  I'm sure I'll have plenty of them in my inbox. Straight from work to another meeting to this. I haven't gotten to e-mails today.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Are we good?  
>> NANCY:  You can lower all hands. I'll get the panelist side, Janeen -- Monica.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Just call whatever works. 
>> NANCY:  I'm so sorry, you guys. I'm just tired.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah, you've been going at it. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  And we only have one more resolution after this, guys.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  And I thought this might be the easier night. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  I've said it before, one thing I've learned about resolutions over the year, can be summed up in one word "you never know". 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Well, yeah, but it proves that our members are passionate and care and that's -- I would rather have that than the alterative. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  Ain't democracy great.
>> All hands down. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  All those against the motion to refer resolution 2023-04 to the membership Steering Committee, please raise your hand.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Zoom has a weird new feature, there's this weird new feature where you can have it chime every time a hand raises. And I forgot I was experimenting with it and last night it was still turned on when we started the meeting. It was horrible having all the hands going up and down. Oh, that hurts my head. 
>> NANCY:  Okay, Ray. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  Did you get it turned off for tonight?
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  I turned it off yesterday. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Could you give us the count.
>> The vote on the motion to refer in favor of referring is 137. Against referring is 4 3 and there's 230 people in Zoom right now. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  137 in favor of referral, 43 against. Lower all hands please.
Okay, now make sure they are all down. Okay, folks. Again, please let us lower them. I know sometimes Zoom gets a little -- Monica will come slap you.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  We can start having the next one. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Before we do that, since there were more than 25 that voted against, this was a significant vote in favor. However, per our standing rules, would -- are there 25 people or more who are minded to have us take a record vote on this resolution?  137 in favor to 43 against.
>> Okay. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  What do we have for counts?
>> 15.
>> They are not being 25 asking for a record vote, there will not be one, therefore this motion to refer is adopted. Membership steering will get this motion referred to them to work on. All right. Next one. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  I don't know if I should say this or not, but um... things would have gone interesting if it had gone to a record vote. Because then if that record vote um... failed or the vote was voted against, then it would have to go back.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Then it would just be gone. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yeah.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Just bring it back. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  I don't want to think about that.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Well, I actually would have kept my commitment. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  All right. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  This way at least it gets -- the membership gets to have it. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Get it into the right hands. Here we go. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  All that being said, we are on to our last resolution of the evening and no we are not -- misspeaking here. This is number 6 because number 5 was, I believe was withdrawn.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Withdrawn. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  We are on to number -- resolution number 6.
>> Resolution 2023-06. Encouraging affiliates to adopt a prohibited conduct policy submitted by Marjy Donavin.
Whereas ACB has adopted a policy on prohibited conduct and applicable complaint investigation procedures and whereas the general purpose of this document is to maintain the integrity of its events in online offense by welcoming a safe and respectful environment. And whereas such a prohibited conduct policy is intended to ensure that event participant vs. A procedure under which direct complaints about conduct that may rise to the level of a serious violation of law.
Or that might be less serious in nature but to the values of the organization. And whereas it is commendable that some ACB affiliates have chosen to adopt their own versions of prohibited conduct policy and whereas the appropriate content for an affiliated conduct policy will differ based on circumstances that may be unique to that affiliate and whereas a prohibited conduct policy may help to alleviate legal liability which might arise in the absence of such a policy. Now therefore be it resolved that this organization urges each affiliate to adopt a prohibited conduct policy and accompanying implementing procedures in order to enable affiliates and further resolved that a copy of this resolution shall be sent to each affiliate and information on how to request assistance in desired to develop such a policy. End of resolution 2023-06.
 -- speaking Spanish -- 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  It has been recommended a due pass by the resolutions committee on this so we don't need a second to that. We are now if people have questions or points of clarification on this. Monica, start calling on them. 
>> MONICA:  Yes, jewel.
>> I have a question, if our questions are to be lowered and raise it again how else was I supposed to get a point of order in?  
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Once we have identified our speakers for the debate, um, for and against any issue, um... we -- raise your hand if it's during the debate call. We probably do need to do a better job watching for that.
>> I was trying to call a point of order. That's what I was trying to do is bring a point of order in the middle of debate. Thank you. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, we will try to be better about watching for that. Thank you. Next. 
>> MONICA:  Anthony Lewis. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yeah. Mr. Lewis. 
>> MONICA:  You can unmute.
Okay, Rosemary miller. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  You have permission to unmute. 
>> MONICA:  Okay. Terel Jones. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Terel Jones.
>> Yes, I assume I'm unmuted. How would you, and I won't go into details. How would you amend this resolution to do two things, one if you feel for example, if you're on a board of an affiliate, and if you feel that code of conduct was in violation during an executive session, where nothing was recorded or anything like that, how would you amend this resolution to cover that?
And secondly, how would you amend this resolution to basically go to a person, if, for example, if you feel the president of the affiliate has um, committed code of conduct violations. How would you --.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  So this does not address any of those specifics. This resolution online encourages the affiliate to work on the issue and figure out for themselves what they would do. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yeah, all we doing is encouraging affiliates to write a -- to put in place a um -- all the resolution is doing is encouraging to put in place a prohibited conduct policy similar to what ACB hassle.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Or not. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Again, we not requiring. And as far as the specifics and how you deal with things, yeah, that's -- that would be up to whatever policy, should it be written.
>> Okay, sounds good. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Anybody else?  How are we doing on time, Denise?  
>> DENISE IRMINGER:  A minute and 45 seconds.
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, we can take more people.
>> Veronica.
>> I just have a question, so currently um, since affiliate members are all part of ACB are we all currently covered by ACB's --.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Only at ACB events.
So ACB events would be the convention and anything that ACB does.
So, if you are affiliates are all independent entities and so our policy does not cover affiliate events. So um, what the maker of this resolution wanted to do was to have the members, basically, say to ACB, to ask affiliates to develop such policies. That's the way the maker intended.
>> I guess my first reaction to this was --.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Needs to be a question.
>> Yeah, why is this necessary?  Does that count as a question?
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  I mean it doesn't. The maker believers it is necessary because the maker believes that affiliate, some affiliates are doing this and some are not and the maker wants to have the board do a little push on that. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yeah.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Actually the members by voting this resolution.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  But the board has to circulate it back, yeah. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  And time?  I think I heard her say time. 
>> DENISE IRMINGER:  Time. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay. Okay. Now we move to debate and again we will do -- we will keep our eye on any potential points of order that people might want to raise. So first of all, however, let's get -- and let's keep consistently for tonight. So we are going to ask anybody who would like to speak in favor of this resolution, please raise your hands. Monica will call on the first 5 and talk and tell us who they are. 
>> MONICA:  Jeannete.
>> I had a point of order and you allowed me to unmute. Is there a concern in this that --
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  That's not a point of order.
>> That was my question, when I was allowed to unmute. But Ray stopped them, so.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah, because the time was up. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yeah. Okay. Um, that's not what a point of order would be considered.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  I think we may get to this during the debate. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yeah, we'll get there.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  I think that question probably will get answered in the debate. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Next. 
>> MONICA:  David Kingsbery.
Oh, Richard. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  All right. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Are you speaking for, Richard?
>> Speaking for. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, that's our first for. Next one. 
>> MONICA:  I don't know if Veronica's hands was up from before. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Veronica --.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Well, she's going to have to be unmuted to tell us that. 
>> MONICA:  She is already unmuted.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Okay. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  I hear you.
>> I'm not. My hand just didn't go down. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, no problem. Zoom grimland actually. 
>> MONICA:  Area code 626, ending in 888.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  That's Chris. I meant Mitch.
>> Speaking in favor. 
>> MONICA:  Next we have Kristy.
>> Speaking for, thank you. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  Did we have Dave?
>> NIRAL: Yes. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Speaking for, okay. That's four, and one more. 
>> MONICA:  Steve Hasen. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Heesen.
>> Yeah, speaking for. And I am at my desk this time. Sorry. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, no problem, no problem there. Okay, do we have our five in favor, so we are going to lower all hands. 
>> MONICA:  Okay. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  And give Monica a moment to do that. Do not lower your own hand, we will get them for you.
All those who would like to speak against this resolution, please raise your hand. And Monica will call on you. 
>> MONICA:  Okay. Janet. It keeps moving on me. That's why. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Was that Janet?  
>> MONICA:  I'm trying.
Okay, Janet, you're unmuted. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  You speaking against?
>> I am speaking against.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Wait, Richard, can you mute, please. 
>> MONICA:  And Janine.
>> Definitely against. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, that's two against. Um, okay, we will get you in, next one. 
>> MONICA:  Karen Campbell. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Karen Campbell, are you speaking against?  
>> MONICA:  Okay, you can unmute, Karen.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  She muted herself. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Karen, you keep muting yourself.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  She's good, again. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay.
>> I'm unmuted, I'm speaking against. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  All right. Good. Great. Stay there we will get to you. That's three.
>> I have a point of order. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, Peter, what is your point of order, sir?
>> This is Peter Haydi from Wisconsin. When we do speak for or against that the person or one of the persons that brought the resolution forward should be the first person to speak.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  We haven't heard from them yet, but yes.
>> Either the person or designee.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah, we haven't heard from them yet. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  I think we may have had one person --.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  There's just one person on this resolution. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Oh, next bun. 
>> MONICA:  Michael Baington.
>> I am speaking against. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  That's four, I believe. And one more. 
>> MONICA:  Harvey. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Harvey.
Speaking against. 
>> MONICA:  I gave him permission. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  You have permission to unmute, sir.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  You'll have to unmute, sir. P.
>> I'm Harvey, I would like to speak against it. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  We do not have the maker or designee of the maker at this point. So what we are going to do then is we are going to go down the list, you know, on each side and um, remember we have 20-minutes and we can extend debate if we run out of time. So each have two minutes a piece. With that I'm going to call on the first speaker in favor and that would be Rich Villa.
>> Am I through?  My um, I speak for the resolution. However I'm wondering how I distinguish this between the affiliates that operate under their own 501-C3 and the HCB umbrella.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  It doesn't distinguish. It's just giving them the information and asking them to do it. It doesn't do anything else. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, anything else?  First person against, that would be Janet.
>> I am speaking against this amendment, my fear is resolution, my fear is that we will end up with so many different policies that as people move in two different affiliates and other ACB special interest groups, that they will become very confused by the... policies and procedures that govern their code of conduct. I think it would be more advantageous that affiliates be encouraged to adopt ACB's code of conduct. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  All right. Very good. Um, next person for is --
>> Mitch.
>> Yes, thank you and before I make my comments, I understand Marji is calling in, Monica. So if you can find her, she should speak. Um... I speak in the strongest possible terms in favor of the resolution. I chair the prohibited conduct committee. I worked with Deb Coclewis to draft our document and I believe that our affiliates need to draft a document addressing prohibited conduct on the state level or in their special interest affiliates.
Why?  Because for better or worse, and I think for worse, we live in a tremendously litigious society. People sue with a drop of a hat and frequently they sue for reasons that most of us here would find very questionable.
You need to protect your organization. Your affiliate.
Because we do not mandate. And this is not a mandate, this is encouragement. Because we don't mandate that you follow and adhere to all of our policies and procedures in the national organization, you are subject to um... any kind of litigation, any kind of action against your affiliate. Therefore.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Someone needs to be muted with the score. Go ahead.
>> You need to protect your affiliate and your assets, and your individuals selves as well. I substantiate prepared and I've already consulted with one of our affiliates in the last few months. I stand prepared to assist any affiliate -- 
>> DENISE IRMINGER:  Time.
>> That wants drafting of such policy. Thank you. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Janeen.
>> I am strongly against this resolution. I am a member of multiple affiliates and organizations within ACB and each one has a different code of conduct policy. While some enforce them, some don't. Some -- one affiliate says, oh, well we are umbrella'd under ACBs so we are following that code of conduct.
So what's the point of our affiliate making one if they are just going to say we are umbrella'd under?  When GOCB adopted their code of conduct they didn't have one for years and years and years and um, Diane Spoon and Shila Young we needed to adopt one because there were never any issues and then there were.
Oh, this has never happened before.
And same thing happened with my state of Florida.
Oh, this has never happened before so we need to amend the code of conduct. I think it should be unilateral and the code of conduct should be unilateral through everywhere because there's nitpicking through like this one says this is okay, this one says it's not okay. Also next Gen has a different code of conduct.
And if you have a problem with someone how do you fix that?  Like, I know we are working on that and we have committees and now a new committee with that, if you have a complaint, like if you're having a problem with your presidents and they are violating the code of conduct, what do you do?  Who do you go to?  Because it's your code of conduct.
And the board members will back up that president. Can't you go to ACB and get help?  They say no, that's the affiliate problem, that's not our problem, you have to work it out.
So, I don't know, I don't think that this is clear enough. I know we are saying everybody should be a code of conduct. Do I think we should have a code of conduct but some of them are stricter than others and there needs to be clarifications. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  You're done.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  You're done. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  You're actually out of time.
>> Okay, so I'm saying "no." 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Thank you, all right. Next for is....
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Did we get Marji?  
>> MONICA:  What is her first 3 numbers of her area code?
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  916.
>> She may be calming from 505.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  916 ending in 505. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Let's let Marji speak to this and then we will -- Kristy, we will come back to you, if that's okay.
>> Good evening, I apologize profusely. I'm exhausted, I have a house full of grandkids. I heard what Mitch said. He said what I would say. I do want to address one thing, I know there's a lot of opposition to quote ACB telling its affiliates what to do. This is a resolution going forth to the membership for the membership to direct ACB should it pass. This is a resolution from the membership, for the membership, by the membership, to protect state affiliates and to protect ACB.
I recognize the fact that every state has its own issues. Some it may not be appropriate for because they might only be a very small number of people. There's all kinds of models here. However, the state that are larger, that haven't done one, maybe this will be the tool to make them move forward. If nothing else happens with this resolution, but forth to pass and no state to do anything, ACB has legally cleared its name.
For any potential lawsuits from any state, any individual that would name the state in ACB. I think that's the most valuable point of this resolution, besides the most obvious fact that there are many large states including our own, in California, that doesn't have one and as I've understood and I didn't hear everything Mitch said. 
>> NANCY:  30 seconds.
>> She needing to work with people. Thank you very much. I appreciate your time and I apologize for being late. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Have one with those grandkids. Okay, Kristy.
>> They are having a blast.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  We just had a 4. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Well, Marji. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, I will go then to, Karen Campbell, speaking against.
>> Okay, I should still be muted. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  You are.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  You are.
>> Okay, I'll make this short and sweet. I am speaking against against because I don't think it should come forward this way and I don't believe we should be telling our affiliates what to do. For that reason I urge a no vote on.
>> Yeah, I texted Marji.
I believe that we do need um... at least to encourage, this is no way saying you have to. It's saying, please do. We need to protect yourselves, when you're in the middle of something, things can get ugly. I've seen it in chapters, I've seen it in affiliates. Um... I believe it is a wonderful way of letting people know, please don't do this.
Um... and you know, there may be consequences or not. But at least we are socializing people to understand what is okay, and what is not okay. It may differ from state to state, affiliate to affiliate, um, but we need to protect ourselves. Thank you. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay. Now next person against is....
>> Michael Bayinton.
>> Thank you.  The history of ACB from inception has been that it has been a grassroots based bottom up not top down organization. It seems to me that these are indeed matters that the affiliates should decide for themselves, without any particular persuasion from the national organization. I realize that there is nothing that is requiring individuals to develop such policy in the resolution.
But it certainly is encouraging to take certain actions. I believe affiliates know about the ACB code of conduct. It's been publicized and they must make the decisions for themselves whether they do it or not.
Our Board of Directors did discuss it and no motion was made to do one. There was many feelings that litigation was much of a risk if you had one, as if you did not. Thank you very much.
>> Okay, before we continue, Karen I heard you. You do need to mute. So if you could do that. Okay, next person speaking in favor.
>> Niral.
>> I think that this will create more -- this itself will control -- create some control in our agency, if there's something going on. You know?  And by having bylaws and having laws it will be a little control of what is going on. You know?  
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, we got your point. Last person speaking against?
>> Harvey.
>> Okay, thank you. I am -- I agree in principle with a code of conduct. I do believe that this could be used to stifle criticism of national policies, and I believe that this is wrong. I have had firsthand experience with the organization's code of conduct when I was unfairly found guilty of harassing an affiliate just because I criticized its charter.
I believe that the code of conduct as written is vague and ambiguous in a lot of places.
And I do not believe that um... that we should be telling affiliates what they should be doing.
And I just am -- I do not feel good about this, at all. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  And per Dan's point earlier, we will take one more in favor and we have one more in favor. Okay, Steve.
>> Yes, I'm speaking for. This is an area where we need clarify and it needs to be specific. We also need to encourage more affiliate activity outside of the ACB activity. In order to do that we need standards of conduct. And if states and affiliates want to use the ACB um... template that's in place, that's great. But this can be a two-edged sword as well. But we don't want to be -- we don't -- at any point do we ever want to bring in a third-party to communicate between both parties. In order to avoid a multimillion dollar lawsuit which could bring an organization to its knees. And not only accept a goodies but they also need to take responsibility and be more help to the national ACB office and also um... you know, reflect what ACB, as an organization, at large, by and large.  So, I am definitely in favor of this. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay, all right. Thank you, Steve. We've heard from all of our speakers. Now we are going to um, lower all hands. And we will now proceed to the vote.
Let me know when they are down. I hear them going down.
>> Looks like all hands are down. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Wait for me to say it. All those in favor of 2023-06, please raise your hands. 
[Pause] 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  If anybody is interested, the cubs won 4-0. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  Because they didn't have the right pitcher going tonight. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  [Chuckles]. 
>> NANCY:  Okay, we are settled. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  All hands down. 
[Pause] 
>> NANCY:  All hands are down -- oh, wait. 
>> MONICA:  There's always one. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay. 
>> MONICA:  Okay, they are all down. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Let me get it out quick before they go up again. All those against the adoption of resolution 2023-06, please raise your hands. 
[Pause] 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  I'm only worried in the Cubs in as much as they help my Fantasy Baseball team. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Texas Rangers beat the White Soxs. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  I think the Padres were leading the Giants.
>> Larry: Angles are ahead of The Dodgers..
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Oh, wow. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  I think the Guardians beat in over time. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  You know the A's have played a little better.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  We are going to declare you all out of order here in a second. 
>> NANCY:  I think we should talk about the symphony. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Ready for counts.
>> Those that are for is 112. Those against is 49 and there were 214 people in Zoom at the time what the count was taken. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  So that -- okay, so there was 112 to 49 in favor.  So, I will ask the question --.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  We need to get the hands down. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Let's get all of the hands down.
>> They are. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Okay. So that was a pretty significant vote overwhelming. However are there 25 or more people that would like us to have a role call vote on this resolution?  
[Pause]
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Oh, wow. 
>> NANCY:  Denise?  
[Pause]
>> Okay, I think we are settled. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  How many do we have?
>> 25. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Well, resolution 2023-06 will go to a record vote on July 25 and I will turn -- I will go get a beer and turn this back to Deb.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  That's out of order. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  [Laughter].
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  I want to thank everyone for their process tonight and I think we worked well together. I know it's challenging. I know it's not perfect, it's what we have. But we just demonstrated that if people were concerned about the accuracy they had an option to question that. And force it to a record vote.
So that's what we will be doing. Thank you all, we will again, be here tomorrow evening. We will be doing resolutions -- where are we?  7, 9, 10, 11 and 12. So please review those and be prepared.
And we will begin at the same time which is 7 p.m. central time. And I will take, if there is a question or something to take care of before we go, I will take no more than a couple of hands. And it needs to be important. So... um, if someone has a question, go ahead and...
Looks like we still have some hands up from before. So that may not work, actually.
>> Regina: I did have something to say.  Hopefully, it's important.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah.
>> Regina: I just have a suggestion for next time that maybe someone could be designated only to look for points of order. Because I had my hand raised under two situations during debate. One Dan Spoon read my mind, so that was good. I'm glad he did that from Florida. But I didn't get a chance to express and I'm not going to belabor it now since the vote is over.
But perhaps it would be better to have one person designated for that while the other person is doing the other hosting activities.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  Yeah, the only way is if we use the question box and we can try to do that tomorrow and we will make sure we have a way to do that. I could have probably done it tonight as it was. So we will figure that out. And I agree that that would be a little bit um, easier. And um, we will work that out. So....
>> Regina: Part of what I was going to say and I figured out a way to say it. If someone is saying they are going to speak for something but they start a point of information, like a question, I think they need to be stopped and then --.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  We are, yeah. We are trying to do that. Where we let it go is where the explanation of that took long. But we did cut several people off when that was happening. Ray did a good job of trying to cut them off when they were in the wrong category.
Now if they got an actual point of order, of course, tried to take that. But if they had questions in the pro and con, retried hard. And I'm sure we are not perfect. But yeah. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  And there's no perfect way to do this.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  No, but your point is well taken. 
>> GABE GRIFFITH:  It can't be perfect even when the debate is in-person.
>> But if it's a point of information, like asking a question and not real debating it. Then we should add someone to the cue that's going to speak for it. Okay, I'll stop.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  When we has a lot of people if it was on the for side and we had tons of people for who were speaking. I don't think anybody thought too much of replacing. But I think if we had it on the lower side I think we would have tried to do that.  So please call us on that if we don't. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yes, please do.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  I'll take one more. 
>> RAY CAMPBELL:  Yeah, we'll take one more because it's getting late.
>> It's Todd. I'm sorry I didn't arrive earlier. I didn't know tonight was a resolutions thing. I'll be here on time tomorrow night.
>> DEB COOK LEWIS:  That wraps up the discussion for this evening. I want to thank everyone. We will convene again tomorrow night. Thank all of our helpers and supporters for working so hard. Thank all of you for your perseverance and we are in recess until tomorrow evening. Thank you very much. 
[ Session Concluded at 10:30 p.m. CST ]