American Council of the Blind 62nd Annual Conference and Convention
6/23/2023 2:00 PM

CONFIDENTIAL ROUGHLY EDITED REALTIME FILE
Compliments of HRICART.com

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This file was created in real time by a Human Realtime Captioner for the purpose of communication access. It is not a certified legal transcript and may not be entirely verbatim. It is intended for use by the consumer only as notes of the proceedings. A consumer should check with the presenter for any clarification of the presentation.

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AMERICAN COUNCIL OF THE BLIND 
62ND ANNUAL CONFERENCE AND CONVENTION 
"AGING INTO DUAL SENSORY LOSS:  WHAT IS THE ROAD FORWARD?" 
JUNE 23, 2023, 2:00 PM 
CONFIDENTIAL ROUGHLY EDITED REALTIME FILE 
Compliments of HRICART.com *************************************** 
This file was created in real time by a Certified Realtime Captioner for the purpose of communication access.  It is not a certified legal transcript and may not be entirely verbatim.  It is intended for use by the consumer only as notes of the proceedings.  A consumer should check with the presenter for any clarification of the presentation.  ***************************************
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  Okay.  This is Ebrahim.  I'm going to start the session.
	>> FELICE:  One moment, please, for the interpreter speaking.
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  Okay.  This is Ebrahim speaking.  This is Ebrahim speaking.  Just let me know when I can start.  Thank you.  We're checking with Jenee.
	>> Fine with me, either way.
	>> REBECCA:  This is Rebecca, though, the interpreter.  Just for visual information?  Nicki Keck is on the screen, but it is showing her ceiling.
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  This is Ebrahim speaking.  I have opened the room.  This is Ebrahim speaking.  Nicki, you can start the recording and the stream.
	>> NICKI KECK:  Can you guys hear me?
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  Yes.  Let's go.
	>> NICKI KECK:  Go ahead.  You said go?
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  Yes.  This is Karyn.  Go ahead.
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	Okay.  I'll start the stream.
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	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  Okay.  This is Karyn speaking.  I want to thank everybody for coming and hope you all enjoy the program.  I am co-chair of the sight and sound impaired Committee of the American Council of the Blind, ACB.  And I want to welcome you.  Megan Conway is one of my committee members.  She is the information and professional services director for Helen Keller national signer.  Megan, I apologize if I didn't get that all correct.  Go ahead and take it away, Megan.
	>> MEGAN CONWAY:  Hi there, everyone.  This is Megan Conway, and my correct title is Director of Information, Research, and Professional Development at Helen Keller National Center, you got the essence of it, Karyn.  I am pleased today to introduce one of my colleagues.  Her name is Jenee Alleman-Goodman, and she is the older adult specialist at the Helen Keller National Center.  Jenee is going to be speaking to you today about aging into dual sensory loss.  Jenee herself is DeafBlind, she is culturally blind and is using ASL to communicate with interpreters.  She also has low vision.  Jenee has her degree in school counseling from Gallaudet University, her master's degree.  She has worked as a school counselor at the Louisiana School for the Deaf as a vocational rehabilitation services counselor for the state of North Carolina.  She has been involved in advocacy for families in the Army, and she also was the vice president and president, respectively, of the American association of the DeafBlind.
	In her current role, she provides advocacy, information, and direct training for older adults, which we define as age 55 and better, who are DeafBlind or who have dual sensory loss.  She'll be describing more about some of the work that she does and in particular a program called the Confident Living Program that we run at Helen Keller National Center and I'm very pleased to introduce her today, and Jenee, I'll let you go ahead.
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  This is Ebrahim speaking.  Before we continue, I'd like to give out the CEU codes, if that's fine.  I'm going to repeat this five-digit code twice.  So the code is 27313.  I'll repeat that again.  That's 27313.  We can continue the conversation.  So over to Jenee.
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  Hello, everyone, this is Jenee.  I'm so excited to be here today.  We will be talking about aging with dual sensory loss.
	So as we know now, adults are becoming more and more older and living older, and they are experiencing more struggles with independent living, such as in their own homes, looking at medicine bottles.  And as I've been listening to ACB's topics of those with vision loss, my presentation itself is going to only include part of information about vision loss.  But also about hearing loss.
	I do want to mention, though, that those older adults experience both and an increase in hearing loss, so I will expound on those topics with that progression.
	We recognize that it is a loss itself, that we do feel a sensory loss may not be the appropriate title, but you would want to go to a medical doctor such as an audiologist to have that investigated.  You will, for example, in with an audiologist, you will experience a hearing test.  They will put you in a soundproof booth and have a beep, a series of beeps that you will listen to.  That's the first step.
	They will test your recognition of sounds and the audiologist will mark that on the audiogram.  They will also test your speech recognition scores in that assessment -- discrimination score at that time.
	And there are three different types of hearing loss itself.  The first one is sensorineural hearing loss.  That's the most common type of hearing loss.  And that's either ear hearing loss.  That may be with a cochlea, and how the sound moves from your ear into the brain and how the speech is received.
	The second type of loss is conductive hearing loss.  And that is something in the middle ear.  You know, it may deal with a bone structure or something prevents the mechanism of hearing working.  Maybe a wax buildup is blocking that, the channel, or blocking the vibration.
	Cicely has her hand up.  Oh.  The interpreters are clarifying about switching interpreters.  And we also have an audience member who has their hand up.
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  And we're going to ask that you hold the questions until later.
	And that leads us to the third type of hearing loss, which includes both sensorineural hearing loss and conductive hearing loss as well.  So Jenee is explaining about receiving the questions.
	>> FELICE:  If anyone would like to speak, go ahead and speak or ask a question.
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  This is Karyn speaking.  Let's let Jenee present and then we'll take questions, if that's okay.  I think it would go much easier that way.  But --
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  Okay.  This is Jenee speaking, so I know this may bring up many questions in your mind and be excited to ask those.  That's okay.
	So when we talk about hearing loss, and the hearing test itself, after you have that, you will sit down with them and you will -- the audiologist, and you will discuss the degree of loss.  And also you will talk about the decibels of hearing loss.  So on the audiogram you have varying levels, progressive levels, 20 to 120 decibels is the volume range.  And based on the severity of the loss.  But it's also connected with which -- where the gap is on the audiogram.
	You also can have two different tests based on your right ear or your left ear.  They can hear differently.  And it includes the speech recognition.  They will test your right ear alone and then they can test your right ear aided with a hearing aid or amplification.  That is a portion of the test.  And they will see the different frequencies that you can hear best at for speech production or for where you can receive information auditorily.
	This will also tell you how loud or how soft speech needs to be.  It will tell you if hearing aids will help you in this situation.  It may even tell you if you're a candidate for a cochlear implant.  If your hearing loss is progressive and you may lose more throughout, as you age.  And it also will talk about how medicine can impact hearing loss and if that will change.
	>> REBECCA:  This is Rebecca.  The interpreters are going to change now.
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  These are all things that are important to know and things to have your life become fuller and have a better quality of life.  The technology these days is really quite something.  So having hearing loss does not have to be the beginning of the horrible things.  Actually, it can be treated and treated well.
	So once you speak with a doctor about your hearing loss and you start thinking about how you want to approach it and how you'd like to communicate with people -- and I have a few ideas about how you could communicate and talk with the people in your life and tell them, hey, listen, here are some things that I can do well and hear well and here are some things that are not and here are some ways and communications tips to speak with which to speak with me best.
	When you become a self-advocate, you can really talk with the people who you speak with on a regular basis and you can kind of say, listen, here are some of the ways you can speak with me.  You can say please sit with me and maybe face your better ear towards that person.  You can also a person to speak clearly and in a normal tone of voice, but you could say, please, you don't need to yell.  Just speak regularly.  And ask people to not speak so fast.  And also sometimes to remember that because we're not only depending on hearing, we're also hearing on speech reading.  It sometimes takes a minute longer for comprehension and for response.
	And I'm looking for my notes.  And perhaps when you talk with me, please make sure I'm looking at you.  Please make sure you have my attention before you just begin speaking.
	Also, keep your hands away from your mouth.  Don't eat and chew, chew gum or candies while we're speaking.  And really try to eliminate excessive background noise.
	If someone is difficult to understand, ask them to repeat or maybe use a different word instead of the word that they had used originally.  Also, it's important that someone not yell room to room, that they're in the same room.  And these are things you can ask the people with whom you communicate.  And please, once we're in an open space and there's a lot going on, it makes it more difficult to communicate.
	And as you may or may not know, someone with a hearing loss may not be aware of the volume of their speech.  So you can ask someone, listen, if I speak too loudly, please let me know.  Kindly, of course.  And then I can moderate my speech level.
	If there is auditory feedback going on that I don't know about happening in another room or that might impact other people in the room, let me know about that.
	So those are a few ideas in the concepts of communication tips and how you can speak with people about how to communicate.  Some other ideas include using a voice or digital recorder.  Sometimes people with hearing loss can miss a bunch of information.  If they record it and listen to it later, they're able to understand it more completely.  So another idea is to leave voice mail with important information.  And that's something you can do for yourself as a reminder.
	Now, moving on to technology and how we can keep safe at home.  You know, these days, technology is just amazing.  Back in the day, there was so much equipment and so many devices that would vibrate and attach different lights around the house.  But these days, smart devices are all over the place.  For me personally, I have Smart Home.  I have everything connected to my phone so I can see who is contacting me.  I have an Apple Watch.  So if someone is ringing my doorbell, it comes up on my watch, it alerts me, and then I know someone is at the door, that the door is ringing and who is there.  I also have Google Nest and Alexa.  There are so many things out there, lots of different devices in the smart category that can really assist people with hearing loss.
	You know, basically, every system has amplifiers.  Sometimes that's just an easy thing to use and sometimes that might help.  Sometimes that might be what you can use or it can connect to the device for your ear, like a hearing aid.  So older adults know that perhaps as opposed to generation past, feel more comfortable with technology.  But one company that is really wonderful and that company is Toronto innovations.  Serene, excuse me.  They have a learning system and vibration systems that you can wear on yourself and also, amplifiers as well, if you feel that modern technology is a bit too much to contend with.  Phones and various different devices.  So you can look into that and see what feels best for you, depending on what your expertise is and what your comfort is with using technology.
	Another thing that I'd like to mention, with people, especially, who have dual sensory and hearing loss, often people feel like -- need to have an emergency system in place, in case of crisis, in case of tornado or just fire or something, need to have backup devices at the ready, maybe a magnifying glass, have a to-go bag, for example.  Also, to have cards printed out or to write a card, because if the battery in your hearing aid dies, you need to have a simple way to communicate.  So to have cards preprinted.  Hi, I have a hearing loss.  I need some help.  And having these cards printed, ready to go, will make this much easier to deal with in the moment.
	I'd like to talk a little bit, coping tips.  How you can manage having dual sensory loss.  The transition is always tough.  It's always going to be a journey to get through it -- to get appointments, to get hearing aids, perhaps, or if a cochlear implant is going to be the right thing to you or how to change my home, how to interact with my partner.  Maybe everybody feels upset or you feel responsible for what is going on or feel terrible or maybe the children are impacted or other people who are involved in your life feel an impact from these losses.  It's important, very important, for the person who lives with you to really go see a counselor for caretaking or get support.  Every state in this country has a department on aging.  They have amazing resources often replaces to caretaking and caregiving.  We recommend that you contact them and they contact them and find out how they can get support as well.
	And talk with someone like myself who does have a dual sensory loss.  And before technology, maybe life was more -- before you started using technology, maybe you felt like, oh, you know what, I can take care of it.  It's not a big deal.  But for me, it's very important for me to establish my home and my place and I realized also, as many of us do, there was moments of depression or anxiety and it's important to talk with a mental health counselor or your doctor, because it's going to cause you to go through a grieving cycle.  Maybe you're going to need help, you know, monitoring that and going through and understanding what that grief is, how this loss -- grief is really understandable.  It is a common response and one that can be worked through.
	I'm just looking at my notes.  One moment for interpreter switch, please.
	Looks like we are almost out of time and I want to save a little bit of time for questions.  But I work at the Helen Keller National Center, and I am involved working with a program called the CLP, and the CLP is a fabulous program that we have.  We utilize peer mentors in this program.  It's the Competent Living Program, and so we have a social aspect because sometimes you feel isolation during that time, and we want you to know that others are out there in the same situation.  You may be back home and feel like you're the only one going through a vision loss and a hearing loss.  But we have groups of five to eight people who come and who socialize with one another.  They learn from one another.  They share their stories.  Really, it's a time of commonality that they can discuss.
	We do have four areas of focus in the Competent Living Program.  The first is for groups.  And in those groups we discuss vision loss, and it's really a varying range from those who are completely blind to those who have low vision.  And then we also discuss hearing loss and those who are in the Deaf community and grew up signing but now are maybe experiencing hearing loss.
	So in the four areas we cover, the first is communication.  We have communication modalities.  We discuss what they need to be, how to -- for example, use tactile sign language, from that range all the way to how to use an FM system, how to communicate with your spouses or your children as your hearing loss progresses and how to use assistive technology in that.  We demonstrate different types of technology that may be able to help those who are aging.
	And we also look at the different levels of hearing loss to try to provide appropriate equipment that would match those needs and allow people to living independently.
	And the next portion is independent living.  We cover assistive technology and we cover also alternative ways of cooking, living in your house, adapting to clothing, finding colors, adaptive living.
	And then we also -- for like orthopedic impairments, if they need to use a walker or if that person needs those types of adaptations, we talk about things such as a human guide and how to use that as a resource.  We also talk about --
	>> FELICE:  We have an elder attorney as well.
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  Elder law, and discuss elder law.  And various discussions under that topic.  We want you to have as much resource and information as possible, and to take back to your family and your children and -- it's really -- I can't say enough.  It's a wonderful program.  We have it in September, there is a group there that we have, and the CLP, so first, there is a virtual component that we utilize Zoom with.  And then you may have one in your state also.
	And then also, we do have one in New York at the Helen Keller National Center in person.  So there are three options for participating in a Competent Living Program.
	And I think that's about all with my portion of my presentation here.  So I'll open it up, then.
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  Okay.  If anyone has any questions, this is Karyn speaking.  If anyone has any questions, raise your hand and Ebrahim will call on you.
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  Okay.
	>> FELICE:  Deborah Armstrong.
	>> DEBORAH:  Okay.  Can you hear me okay?  Thank you.  So I think my hearing is getting worse, and I believe it is time for a new pair of hearing aids.  However, one of my concerns is that every audiologist I've worked with before is a hearing aid salesperson.  Is there any way I can find an audiologist who is not trying to sell me hearing aids who can do an independent evaluation and give me some advice that doesn't -- you know, that has my best interests at heart rather than their commission?  Thank you.  I'm back on mute.
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  This is Jenee speaking.  That's a very good question.  That is definitely a hot topic in the audiology world, being a salesperson.  It's best to go to an an otolaryngologist, a medical doctor.  They will have your best interests in there and they will be able to meet your needs of what type of hearing aid you need.  If you decide for yourself to go to like an audiologist, maybe, who is that salesman, they may be based on a commission or something.  So you would be able to compare, even, and get a second opinion.  Does that help answer your question?
	>> DEBORAH:  It does.  Thank you.
	>> BETH:  Thank you very much for the presentation.  I'm enjoying it.  I have sensorineural hearing loss, almost complete hearing loss of the left side.  I know that you are not a medical doctor, Jenee, but I am wondering if you have any idea if I have a greater probability of losing hearing on the right side, which is now fine.  Thank you very much.
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  Yes, this is Jenee speaking.  You're right, I am not a medical doctor, but with sensorineural hearing loss, and I've had experience working with a lot of Deaf and hard of hearing caseloads, reading a lot of audiograms and trying to interpret those.  Sensorineural hearing loss has many different causes.  It could be from genetics or it could be from too much sound exposure an environmental --
	>> BETH:  A virus.
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  Oh, yes, yes, a virus.  So maybe a medical reaction may have caused some of that as well.  So there's no defining answer, definite answer for what causes sensorineural hearing loss.  And we don't know, too, if it would affect your right side as well.
	>> BETH:  So there's no probability that it's -- that it would be a no known probability that I would also lose hearing on the right?  It's just luck of the draw?
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  Yeah, there's no -- you don't know when you're talking about sensorineural hearing loss.
	>> BETH:  Okay.  Thank you.  And I didn't mean to interrupt you.  What other causes are there besides virus?
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  So noise exposure was one.  And then genetics also.  There is a genetics component.  And viruses or diseases, medical aspect.  But really, you don't know exactly.  You can have kind of an idea, but you never know exactly what all the causes are.  It's just based on the person's unique reasons.	Once again, it's important to just check with your audiologist.  Don't quote me.
	>> BETH:  Thank you.
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  This is Ebrahim speaking.  Next up, Scott Marshall.
	>> SCOTT:  Thank you very much.  I wonder whether HKNC is able to provide advice about local audiologists that have experience with people facing dual sensory loss.  I consulted with an audiologist who received a PhD from Gallaudet here in Washington, but she really had very limited knowledge about how to adjust a hearing aid to meet my needs of being able to hear, for example, background noises, traffic noises, and so forth.  Do you have any advice on this subject?  Thank you.
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  If I understand your question correctly, you want to know from HKNC advice about a local -- are you saying you would like someone to come from HKNC?
	>> SCOTT:  No.  I'm wondering whether or not you maintain, perhaps, a directory of audiologists who have experience, local audiologists who have experience with dual hearing loss, given my unfortunate experience with the professional that I did see.
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  Oh, I get it.  I get it.  I know what you're saying.  So that's a really good question, and I'm not really aware of a directory per se.  But at HKNC we do have consultation there with an audiologist, so they maybe can work with your -- you know, if you're 55 and older, your audiologist can reach out to me and maybe we could find and connect somewhere back in your local area.
	>> SCOTT:  Okay.  Because I know others have faced this similar situation, trying to find a professional who has the skills necessary to be most helpful in terms of adjusting hearing aids.  Thank you.
	>> MEGAN CONWAY:  This is Megan Conway.  May I interrupt, Jenee, for a moment?
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  Sure, sure.
	>> MEGAN CONWAY:  So this is Megan, and I'm hard of hearing and blind.  And so I just wanted to answer a couple of -- clarify on a couple of the questions that I've heard because I have a lot of experience as a hearing aid user, someone who has lost -- actually, my whole life, had dual sensory loss.  So in response to the question about the audiologists who have experience with people with vision loss, again, as Jenee said, we do have an audiologist on staff at HKNC who is actually going to be presenting this afternoon after this session.  Her name is Carol, and she's going to be talking about issues around hearing aids.  But it would be well worth listening to her presentation and she may have some, you know, be able to answer some of that.
	We do, when people come to HKNC, one service we provide is working with Carol around finding the best options for you, as someone who has both hearing and vision loss.  But I would say, you know, my own experience, I understand what you mean.  One thing I've had to do is, I guess, be my own advocate in a lot of ways and do research and have an understanding about -- I'll give an example of a problem that I have when I'm doing street crossing is that a lot of the modern hearing aids have -- they're set so that when you're in noisy environments, they focus, right?  They become directional.  And the intention is that you're able to hear speech.  They're always mostly -- the hearing aids, in the hearing aid brain, it wants to focus on speech and get rid of background noise.  So a challenge that I had, I want to cross a street.  In that case, I want to have all the sound around me.  I want to know where all the traffic is coming.
	>> SCOTT:  Correct.
	>> MEGAN CONWAY:  I know that.  I told my audiologist, when the hearing aid encounters traffic noise, I don't want it to become directional.  I want it to stay with the surround sound.  So she was able to make that adjustment.  So for me, that's one thing I do is just, you know, kind of being aware of all of those different sort of settings yourself can be helpful.
	I would also say that, you know, sometimes I've had more luck sometimes working -- and this kind of also strays into one of the other -- I know someone had a question -- I can't remember what the previous question was, but I was thinking -- oh, I know, the question about finding people who are not just trying to sell you a certain kind of hearing aid.  So I've had more luck sometimes working with, you know, like universities that have audiology programs.  Often they'll have -- maybe universities that have a strong hearing -- otolaryngology department, training ENTs and others with hearing loss, sometimes they'll have an audiology department and work together.  Sometimes I've had a little better luck going to those clinics where I'm able to see a medical hearing specialist and they refer me to their audiology department would tend to be a little less focused on selling you one particular brand of hearing aid.  Again, it really varies.
	I've also found that seeing someone who has a doctorate in audiology, that is an AUD, a lot of times they will be -- often they will sell hearing aids, but in general, they tend to also provide some treatment to patients, for example, who have balance problems or have cochlear implants.  So I've had a little better luck when the audiologist also has their doctorate in audiology, finding people to work with me, as a person with low vision, finding the right technology that's going to meet my needs.  So I kind of wanted to jump in on all of those points, listening to the conversation.  With that, I'll throw it -- the hat back in the ring for further questions with Jenee.
	>> SCOTT:  Thank you.
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  That's wonderful, Megan Conway, I appreciate your participation and joining in.  Is there anyone else?
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  Next up, sorry, this is Ebrahim speaking.  Next up, Donna Browning.
	>> DONNA:  A few months ago I had sudden and complete hearing loss, it wasn't synchronous, some of it came back.  Not all of it came back.  But it sort of happened again when I got sick with a really bad infection with my sinuses.  I lost a lot of hearing again.  I also have a lot of issues with my ears feeling like they're full.  They say there's nothing there to make them feel like that.  But I want to know if you've seen any -- a lot of people who have had this happen, sudden hearing loss, and if they've had -- if it gets better or if it continues to get worse.
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  All right.  This is Jenee responding.  I'm not exactly sure how to respond to your question.  I was born Deaf.  But is there anyone else who has experience with sudden hearing loss that can speak to her question?
	>> MEGAN CONWAY:  Megan is going to jump in again, because -- I can't help myself.  I know there's been different questions about medical issues and, you know, is something progressive or is it going to affect this ear and honestly the best person to talk to is a medical doctor.  As Jenee said, there are many different reasons for hearing loss.  It's individual.  And for every person, there's a different trajectory.  And, you know, sometimes for myself, I was born with a mild hearing loss.  In my late teens, it became profound, so very, very severe.  I had some surgery.  It got a little better.  It's going down again.  That's been my journey.  But it's very -- to my hearing loss, and it's -- really, a medical doctor, if you do have medical loss, suspect that you do, your first stop is with a medical doctor.  And that's just extraordinarily important, because then, they will -- the first thing that they will do is really diagnose what is causing the hearing loss and what is the, you know, potential -- what is that going to look like for you.  Even then, just like with vision loss, you know, I think many of us have probably -- myself included -- experienced changes in my vision loss as I've gotten older.  I've always been legally blind, had cataracts, other issues as I've gotten older.  And there's no answer, necessarily, to some of the questions about is this going to be worse or why is this happening.  However, again, really, the best -- it's extremely important to consult with a doctor who specializes in -- even first with your family physician to get a referral to a doctor who specializes in hearing.
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  Thank you for that, Megan.  Next person.
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  This is Ebrahim speaking.  Next up we have Pamela.
	>> PAMELA:  Yes, can you hear me?  Hello?  Okay.
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  Yes, we can.
	>> PAMELA:  I am legally blind.  I'm deaf in my left ear and have some hearing loss in my right ear.  I do wear a hearing aid in my right ear.  Are there any tricks to locate sound when you are deaf in one ear?  For example, if I'm crossing a street, I can't hear the direction of the traffic.  Or when someone calls me in a building or parking lot or whatever, I cannot locate where the sound is coming from.
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  This is Jenee.  Once again, I think maybe, Megan, you might have some good responses to that.
	>> MEGAN CONWAY:  Can you hear me?  It's Megan Conway.  I forgot to mute before.  Hmm.  Well, part of it, again, this is actually where I'd say sometimes with working with an audiologist on your hearing aids and adjusting, you know, the hearing aids that you have, so that, again, it picks up as much sound around you -- turning your head, turning your body.  It can be beneficial to work with a mobility specialist.  An OM specialist on something like this.  The next question, a lot of mobility specialists don't have experience working with people with hearing loss.  Which, of course, is true.  Depending where you live, there may be a specialist who has experience working with someone with hearing loss, so I've found that to be helpful in terms of working with both the audiologist and the mobility specialist.
	I know, for example, Guide Dogs For the Blind in California, now has an audiologist who works with a lot of their clients because they recognize this as a significant issue, mobility when people are getting older and getting hearing loss.  I think increasingly there is recognition, you know, in terms of mobility we need to be thinking, you know, mobility specialist and audiologist, there needs to be some collaboration there.  I don't know if anybody else has particular tips.  I personally have some hearing in both my ears.  Again, I know that working with the hearing aids that I have is helpful.  I have to turn my body because I'm blind in my left eye and have a little bit of vision in my right.  I have to do a lot of -- when I'm on a street crossing, a lot of turning of my body to make sure that I'm getting everything.
	Does anybody else in the audience have -- who might be deaf in one ear have some tips?
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  This is Ebrahim speaking.  Anyone who has a raised hand, then I'll allow you to talk.  At this time, we do not have any raised hands.
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  Let's go to the go next question, then.
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  We have Lori Scharff with a raised hand.
	>> LORI:  Thank you.  I would like to say this might be another case where Dr.  Carol's presentation later on today would be very beneficial to listen to.  I'm sure in addition to over-the-counter hearing aids that she would, you know, be able to maybe talk about some other aspects of hearing loss and ways to cope with situations.  Thank you.
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  This is Karyn.  Thank you, Lori.
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  This is Ebrahim talking.  We do not have any further raised hands.
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  Okay.  Thank you.  Jenee, any more you want to say on aging and dual sensory loss or the Competent Living Program?
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  This is Ebrahim speaking.  We do have one raised hand.  Timothy.
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  This is Karyn.  Go ahead and take it.
	>> TIMOTHY:  Okay.  Thank you so much.  Yeah, this is Tim.  One thing I wanted to mention about this, I've got -- I've got a reverse hearing loss.  And I've been to many audiology doctors, and you know, I've read where hearing aids are made with certain protocols with people that have the normal hearing loss in the higher frequencies.  Mine are in the lower frequencies.  And I've spent a lot of money on expensive hearing aids and the audiologist or doctor just can't get it right.  I'm wondering, I know they don't make any hearing aids now to be adequately adjusted for reverse slope sufferers, but is there any hope in the future?  I've heard that only 3,000 in 33 million have what I have.  I'm a social guy but all of my interactions are on Zoom because I can't hear in face to face, whatnot.  I wonder if reverse slope is going to be recognized as something that --
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  I'm going to cut you off.  You might want to tune into the second program.  I think that might be able to better help your -- better answer your question.  If Jenee would like to respond, go ahead.
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  I guess I'm repeating myself, but once again, right, a medical doctor will be able to identify that better.  And I realize that you have gone to people, but talking with specialists is going to be the answer.  But I'm afraid I have nothing else to add to that.
	>> TIMOTHY:  Thank you.
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  This is Ebrahim speaking.  I just wanted to give you a time check.  It's the top of the hour.
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  Okay.  This is Jenee speaking.  Thank you so very much for joining our presentation this afternoon.  I've enjoyed this discussion as well.  Thank you all for joining us, and have a great afternoon.
	>> REBECCA:  Karyn, I believe you're talking.  This is Rebecca speaking.  But you're muted.
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  (Indiscernible) right now.  If you could just give the four components to the Competent Living Program.  This is Karyn.
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  Oh, the four areas, yes.  Communication, assistive technology, independent living and then orientation and mobility.
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  Thank you.
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  Mm-hmm.
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  This is Karyn.  Are there any more questions?
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  This is Ebrahim.  We do have two raised hands, but I think that's on -- Linda Faust, I think.
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  This is Karyn.  Go ahead and take her.
	>> LINDA:  Hi, it's good to be here.  Can you hear me?  Hello?  Am I -- I'm Linda Faust.  Somebody else got it wrong in a Zoom -- so I'm high and middle ear hearing loss and I have low partial sight and there are a couple of things I wanted to ask or say.  I can relate to the person that said he'd rather do Zoom than be in a crowd because of the background noise.  One of the reasons I don't go to crowded situations, it's just so noise, I can't deal with it.  I hear voiceover, read the menu choices that I've marked and (indiscernible) isolation.
	The other thing is, does Helen Keller -- does the agency have any way -- any way that they could do to make hearing aid apps like the Thrive apps that's on my Audibel hearing aid more accessible for people who are visually impaired?  Because it seems I have to be the guinea pig to try to educate them on it and they can do so much and I have to do workarounds a lot of times for things.
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  This is Jenee.  So Helen Keller does have a team, and we do sit down and try to figure out accessibility needs and workaround, as you say.  We have vision loss and hearing loss.  One person who is just talented, especially, with Braille, a wonderful person, he's in great health --
	>> LINDA:  I'm sorry to -- there's so much echo, it's hard for me to hear everything you're saying.  Is there any way you could fix that?
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  This is Ebrahim speaking.
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  Maybe mute somebody.  I don't know.
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  This is Ebrahim speaking.  I think the sound is in Rebecca's background.
	>> FELICE:  No, I believe there's someone listening -- this is Felice, the interpreter, listening to the presentation.
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  Mute them, Ebrahim.
	>> LINDA:  I'm trying to ask a question.
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  This is Ebrahim, we have another one besides Linda on the attendee side that is unmuted.
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  Jenee, go again.  This is Karyn.
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  Okay.  This is Jenee again.  I was thinking about the wonderful world of technology here and Helen Keller has a team that's very involved with assistive technology, especially in regards to vision loss or hearing loss.  One gentleman, Scott Davert, is a brilliant person with hearing loss and I mean, he just knows everything.  He's a wonderful person to connect with.  He might be a great resource.  And that's Scott Davert.
	>> LINDA:  I have no way to take it down, so I don't know if it would be okay to give me (indiscernible) at the end of the session?
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  (Indiscernible), Linda.
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  Not on Zoom, but -- I think you might be able to contact -- communicate ACB.org to get information.
	>> LINDA:  I hope so.
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  Ebrahim, that would be correct.
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  This is Ebrahim.  Can you move on to the next question?
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  Actually can, and then we'll probably have to cut it off.
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  Yes.  Just as a reminder as well, this is Ebrahim, that I need to give out the closing CEU code.
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  This is Karyn, if we've got another question, let's take it, and then we'll give the CEU code.
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  This is Ebrahim.  Next up, we have Vicky.
	>> VICKY:  Can you hear me?
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  This is Ebrahim.  Yes, we can.
	>> VICKY:  Okay.  I am -- have been legally blind all of my life, but I've lost most of my vision.  Plus in the last year, I've lost a couple of hearing.  So unfortunately, like Scott, I went to one of those salesmen, spent $8,000, and they didn't help me after that.  My problem is when I'm going to a large crowd and I do have a few adjustments on the hearing aids, it still sound all around.  Particularly when I'm out in traffic, it's sound all around.  And, you know, I haven't made much progress and my husband suggested in conversations that there are these microphones that you can, I guess, pair with -- I don't know if it's your phone or whatever that in concert with the hearing aids, if you're in a group, you can put it on a table and it might help.  Do you know anything about anything like that?
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  Yes, Jenee.  We have a plethora of adaptive technologies and FM systems that you can use for environmental locations.  You can focus on a microphone that you pass to each person when they're speaking, and you can have also a more expensive or a greater type system that's called a loop system as well.  Yes, it's a loop system that goes around your neck that works with your hearing aid.
	All right.  Megan has a comment to add.  I was thinking also that maybe in the next presentation with Carol, she's going to be more knowledgeable on what works with hearing aids and FM systems.
	>> MEGAN CONWAY:  Yes, this is Megan.  You're absolutely correct.  I personally use -- I have Phonak hearing aids and I use what's called a Roger Pen.  (Phonetic).  A lot of companies do have assistive listening devices as well.  FM is a particular way that the device transmits information through radio waves so you'll hear that term.  There's also infrared systems.  But there's a broader category of assistive listening devices that can help you in situations where there's noise, can help you connect to the television, to computer audio, et cetera.  And it's a whole, I'm thinking, actually, for -- we might want to put together some kind of a seminar to the community around assistive listening devices because they're extraordinarily helpful, especially when you have vision loss and you're listening to your JAWS also.  So if you just Google assistive listening device, you might come up with different things.
	Again, working with an audiologist, if you find the right one, is really extremely helpful because there's lots of different devices and you do have to make sure that they're compatible with your particular hearing aids.
	>> JENEE ALLEMAN-GOODMAN:  Mm-hmm.  Karyn, this is Rebecca, and I see your lips moving, but you're muted.
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  Now I'm unmuted.  With that, I think we're going to have to let Ebrahim give the closing CEU code, please.
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  Okay.  This is Ebrahim speaking.  The closing CEU codes, I'm going to repeat them twice.  They are 81889.  For a second time, it's 81889.
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  Okay.  Thank you very much and thank you for coming.  Our next program will be at 2:30.  Thank you.
	>> EBRAHIM VASTA:  I'm closing the room.  Bye, everyone.
	>> KARYN CAMPBELL:  Go ahead.
	[ Human realtime captioning by HRI CART.  ]